To wonder about when people say they're in a "professional" job, what that actually means?

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I see it pop up a lot on threads, someone talks about their job, or their OH's job, and qualifies it as a "professional" job.

What does this actually mean? Is it solely a doctor, lawyer, or accountant? Or is it any old job you get paid for? Or do a few exams at some stage for?

Everyone seems to be a professional these days.

Saying they need to be employed; sort of understandable. Stipulating the type of job they need to do so is just weird. Especially when tradespeople are often better paid than many professionals.

My PhD supervisor used to say that there were 5 professions - the Church, Law, Medecine, Teaching and Engineering. I was going to mention the World Bank list that Hedgehog put up. I'm the first on the list (Chartered Geologist). It reflects the wider range of occupations today than say 100 years ago.

To me, professional status is about a minimum level of education and experience which aids Chartership with a professional body/institute, and then Continuing Professional Development to keep up knowledge and understanding. Education - often BA/BSc/LLB but increasingly MSc. On the other hand I know several Chartered Accountants who left school at 16 and trained "on the job" and at evening classes.

I agree with whoever said it means any job where you usually have to look smart
They're always highly specialised too (when mentioned on here) with only two people IN THE WORLD doing that exact job

Can I clarify Nursing as a profession?

To be a nurse you have to have undergone vocational training (now degree level, but many nurses in the workforce came in on different paths)

It has a protected title: As my registration has lapsed, I am not permitted (by law) to refer to myself as a nurse. I may only say that I 'used to be' a nurse.

To return to practice, I have to undertake a course (which I must pay for) and do 150 practice hours, unpaid and under supervision.

To regain my registration I have to have a declaration from two people in specified roles to say that a) I have completed the above and b) they believe me to be in good character.

I have to pay to be registered, but can't practice without registration.

To remain on the register I have to complete evidenced CPD and a number of practice hours. I also have to make a declaration as to my fitness to practice.

If I receive a conviction of any kind I have to inform my professional body and they will make a decision as to my fitness to practice.

I can be struck off the register and my career would be over.

What is it about nursing that you doubt is 'professional'?

I don't think it matters so much now. DH left school and went onto an apprenticeship he became a 'professional' by promotion, day release, and eventually becoming a chartered engineer. He worked alongside other engineers who entered at degree level. He always said a professionals never got overtime payments and never went on strike.

IMO it's not the 'title' of the job that matters it's doing something you enjoy and lets face it pays well.

Some also have a sense of vocation maybe that is also needed to be professional.

I thought it was associated with having a salary (i.e. monthly and fixed) rather than being paid by the hour?

If it's based on qualifications, where would you put computer consultants? A degree is an absolute bare minimum where I work and I'm one of very few who "only" has a masters rather than a doctorate, but the actual degree isn't rigid in the same way that it is for a doctor or midwife - it has to be highly mathematical but that's all.

There is a professional body I could join but I've never bothered, since nobody cares.

I have a certificate that says I'm a professional.
I'm an early years professional
I have a degree and have done a post grad qualification to gain my early years professional status
I don't feel like it though, as those who work in early years never seem to have the same respect as say primary teachers
Or the wages

I switch off when I see the term .
I can't think of a single circumstance where the term is necessary .
When I see it thrown around on mn it is usually accompanied with opinions that vary hugely to mine anyway .

I think (but could be wrong) that all chartered institutes require their members to take degree level exams? Chartered accountants certainly don't neeeeed to have a degree and can qualify on the job, but that isn't necessarily the easy option - you still have to pass the same final exams.

On the other hand, anybody can do a professional job or behave professionally.

The term 'professional' is often used to mean the opposite of amateur, as in a professional footballer.

I remember back in the 70's the army using the recruitment slogan 'Join the Professionals'

So it seems to me that the links between the words Profession and Professional are less than straight forward.

I think the term should only apply to jobs in which you could not call yourself that job title without special training or qualifications or membership of a professional governing body. So, I couldn't just decide to be a dentist one day, but there's nothing stopping me calling myself an HR consultant or a make up artist and setting up in business. In addition, a profession usually has a governing body and is seen as the forefront of that area of expertise (so, for instance, front of house staff wouldn't be a profession on that basis, nor would web design). I think the terms "professional" and "unprofessional" are probably misused these days.

Regarding the nursing, that list of requirements doesn't sound too different to other jobs really (eg non-admin "office" jobs). Which is I suppose is what I'm getting at, if nursing, etc, is a profession, then so are many other jobs.

As in, many finance industry jobs other than Accountancy need degrees, then you need to do professional exams, (which you need to pay for), CPD, be a member of a professional body, not bring it into disrepute or you're expelled etc.

I think 'professional' implies not just having brains (postgraduate qualifications) but also applying those brains, making judgements. If your job involves 'just following orders' then you are not professional.
A professional has the latitude to make decisions but the sanction that they can be struck off if their judgement is found wanting.

To me it means a job in which it is impossible to be employed without a specific degree relevant to the job and subsequent compliance with post university sector requirements .

It also involves compulsory membership of a professional regulatory organisation rather than voluntary membership of a trade body.

The regulatory body has power to impose sanctions, including the ultimate sanction of being prohibited from working in the profession if there are breaches of conduct or failings in standards. Continuing to work after being struck off is a criminal offence.

The regulatory body may also comment on / impose sanctions in relation to conduct which is private and personal , unrelated to the profession but which it considers is damaging to the reputation of the profession as a whole.

To me professional means a career you have to study for, and have specific qualifications, have an industry body and have chartered status for which you have to apply and be granted.

Ie not just any old thing you can walk into out of uni with any old degree.

Many professions need a degree as a pre requisite, then further specific training to qualify.

It has a protected title: As my registration has lapsed, I am not permitted (by law) to refer to myself as a nurse. I may only say that I 'used to be' a nurse.

Good point. Mine is the same. The job title can only be used if one meets all the regulatory requirements and it's a criminal offence for anyone who doesn't to use it.

Many representative bodies are organised by governments not just teaching.

I would definitely consider teaching a profession, not just because I teach, well lecture on a professional programme area, but because of the level of professional training teachers participate in.

I do find some claims at being professional a bit dubious like a professional glamour model etc but for a lot of people your profession is merely what you do for a living.

*Ie not just any old thing you can walk into out of uni with any old degree.

Many professions need a degree as a pre requisite, then further specific training to qualify.*

This rules out teaching then, and Accountancy. And nursing to an extent.

It doesn't rule out nursing. The only difference with nursing is that the specific (vocational) training is done alongside the academic study. At the end of the programme, to qualify as a nurse the student has to have passed all of their practice placements and completed their academic study to the required standard.

Ditto for teaching.

You can do a general degree in whatever, then do your teaching/nursing qualifications after that, so it's the same as accountancy IMO.

And many other occupations.

An academic qualification does not surpass learning via professional practice. For example you can become a chartered engineer via an experimental route without an academic qualification.

Recognition of prior learning is becoming a fundamental part of further and higher education in a world that no longer offers the 'career for life'. So no many professions don't always require an academic qualification the experiental route obviously is an extremely difficult way of proving you have acquired the relevant knowledge, skills and competencies.

Experimental = experiental damn autocorrect