To wonder about when people say they're in a "professional" job, what that actually means?

[WeldedParentMaterials]

I see it pop up a lot on threads, someone talks about their job, or their OH's job, and qualifies it as a "professional" job.

What does this actually mean? Is it solely a doctor, lawyer, or accountant? Or is it any old job you get paid for? Or do a few exams at some stage for?

Everyone seems to be a professional these days.

[Imscarlet]

Some HR people wold argue that it is not a profession either and that CIPD are trying to promote it as one when it isn't. Essentially I suppose, if I were hiring a HR professional I would be looking for CIPD membership as it would mean that by their membership try had attained a certain degree of education and experience to qualify for membership so it takes the guesswork out of it. I don't work in that area anymore. Mostly we see it here (not UK) when landlords look for 'professionals'. Basically they mean not students or people working in trades or non-skilled employment.

[SorchaN]

I think with the maths lecturer example the PhD would constitute the relevant exam. Having a maths PhD doesn't make you a professional, especially if you then work as a greengrocer, but if you get a job as a maths lecturer you're a professional.

(Not trying to disparage greengrocers in any way here; just thinking that the job doesn't usually require a PhD in maths.)

[lastnightiwenttomanderley]

Re the 'something to lose' argument, if I do something to bring my profession into disrepute, I can be struck off. That doesn't affect my reputation or ability to get work locally, it means I cannot practice. At all.

[FreeWee]

Trevarongirl if you are a qualified member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development then you are in fact an HR professional. Perhaps you have a view of how certain people working in HR in your experience have not behaved professionally but to cast aspersions on an entire sector of employment without checking to see if there is a charted body suggests your experience may have clouded your judgement.

[simbacatlivesgain]

HR isnt a profession in my book.

[pinkdelight]

Exactly lastnight. That's it, isn't it? That the professional body permits you to do that job and if you're struck off, you can no long do it. Yes, it might be in a handyman's interests to be ethical, but clearly it's not a prerequisite for the job as many a dodgy handyman has proved.

[simbacatlivesgain]

I think in a profession there is a professional body that has the power to remove you and you can never work in that field again. So not just remove your status or stop you being a member of their body.

Can you be barred from HR or hairdressing? Honest ?- I dont know.

[SlightlyJadedJack]

I would class professional jobs as something that you would need degree level education (and beyond) followed by professional exams from a governing body that is regulated by law.

[SlightlyJadedJack]

and what samba said.

[Tutt]

Hairdressing in't regulated so no can't be barred/struck off and can still go ruin hair.
This is why I got out as even the qualifications now are shit!

[fredfredgeorgejnr]

lastnightiwenttomanderley / simbacatlivesagain but that applies to a tiny minority of jobs - and quite tight definition of not being able to work. At all. For example a solicitor could be struck off, but they could still work in legal jobs within a company say.

[WeldedParentMaterials]

So doctors, vets, dentists, accountants, engineers, midwives, lawyers, architects, social workers, teachers, nurses, university professor, post doc scientist, senior civil servants.

In that list, I think if you're including social workers, teachers, other civil servants in it then the list needs to be a lot wider and include things like police, occupational therapists, radiographers etc. In fact, if nursing is included, then OT etc should be as well, as is OT not more academically rigorous than many nursing courses? Likewise many "white collar" jobs.

[simbacatlivesgain]

For example a solicitor could be struck off, but they could still work in legal jobs within a company say.

Then they wouldnt have a profession? They would have a job in a company.
Any job they did would not require the professional body membership of they wouldnt be able to do it.

[Jackieharris]

I see what you mean.

Maybe then professional should be restricted to people who've been in these jobs a few years, don't some extra qualifications and been promoted a couple of times?

[OhFrabjousDay]

I started the CIPD for HR work years ago. They were very keen on promoting the idea of HR as a 'profession' and the CIPD was supposed to bestow 'professionalism' on HR as a discipline.

I didn't get on with the course at all, and I'm not convinced that it is a profession.

I'm now studying for a degree in something along the lines of physiotherapy. I have no idea whether people consider it a profession, and I'm not sure I care.

[fredfredgeorgejnr]

simbacatlivesagain Yet I've never met a commercial lawyer who doesn't describe themselves as professional. So while that might be your definition, it's not one that others use.

[Lilymaid]

There's a difference between the "regulated professions" and other professions. The regulated professions include, for example, medicine and law and you can be banned from practising in these professions by the regulatory body. For other professions, which are jobs which have a professional body, usually recognised by a royal charter, but to which it is not compulsory to be a member (e.g. I am a chartered librarian, DH is a chartered engineer) you can be disciplined and expelled from membership of the chartered body, but still be able to carry on working in that sector.

[SleeplessinUlanBator]

"A handyman in a small town almost certainly has more to lose in reputation than a post-doc scientist for example...

I think when people say they have a professional job, they're just trying to make you think they're better than other people, don't make any assumptions about what they do, and just hear "job".


A handy man in a small town may well lose his client base locally via word of mouth if he screws up, but there is nothing stopping him from finding work in the neighboring town. A doctor or solicitor for instance can't operate anywhere if they are struck off from the professional body that they are a member of.

I think most people when they say they are in a 'professional' job are just stating it as a fact as opposed to trying to score points or be snobby. I know that after busting my gut to get a good engineering degree and jump through all the subsequent continual assessments and interviews to become chartered engineer I am going to call myself a 'professional'

[museumum]

when i've filled out surveys that ask what type of job you have 'professional' is usually on a line with 'requiring specialist post-graduate qualifications'.

my dh has a 'proper' 'professional' job in that he's on the list that can sign people's passport photos in that capacity.

my job requires a post-graduate degree (after a first degree) so although i don't use 'professional' in everyday conversation, on surveys i do tick the 'professional (requiring specialist post-graduate qualifications)' box.

[SlightlyJadedJack]

As an architect we have both of those Lilymaid. The RIBA is the chartered part and I could still practice as an architect without being a member. We also have the ARB which is our registration body. If I am not a registered member of the ARB I cannot call myself an architect as it is a protected title in law.

[SlightlyJadedJack]

museumum, architects aren't listed on that passport form specifically but I have countersigned many. If you have a professional qualification you can sign, you just have to list what your qualifications are on the form.

[Jackieharris]

The 'protected title' is probably the best definition of professional.

[FreeWee]

I have the qualifications to be a member of 4 professional bodies but ironically the actual profession I work in I haven't bothered to get qualified as I have so many years experience it seemed unnecessary to take the actual qualification. If I moved jobs it would be a barrier but I don't actually want to do my job elsewhere which I probably why I haven't been bothered to qualify. I therefore don't tick the professional box on surveys as my post graduate qualifications don't qualify towards the profession I work in.

[sashh]

A job which has a professional standard you have to achieve to be part of, so not just a degree but other registration.

There must be governing body ie GMC that controls entry to it and polices who works in the area.

Finally it should be altruistic. I don't mean that you can't make money but that the major part of the profession is not the money.

[Thurlow]

Most of the time when people use it, they're probably just using it as shorthand for trying to say something.

So when a poster says "DH is in a professional job" they're probably just trying to say he's might be working long hours, or have a lot of pressure at work, without coming out and saying what job it is.

Or they are being pedantic like me, who knows that no one in the world knows that librarians spend years qualifying with post-graduate degrees and chartership and the like, and so gets a little precious about it sometimes