To wonder about when people say they're in a "professional" job, what that actually means?

[WeldedParentMaterials]

I see it pop up a lot on threads, someone talks about their job, or their OH's job, and qualifies it as a "professional" job.

What does this actually mean? Is it solely a doctor, lawyer, or accountant? Or is it any old job you get paid for? Or do a few exams at some stage for?

Everyone seems to be a professional these days.

[mrsseed]

Health and safety professional here! I have taken degree equivalent exams (as well as having a degree in something else) I have studied and been interviews rigorously to be a chartered member of an institute with a royal charter. I have more letters after my name than in it. I have know Health and safety law inside out and how to apply it. So, weldedparent health and safety is a profession but as with many jobs there are those who aren't professionals who are not professionally qualified.
Passport forms can be signed by full members of Professional organisations now, so no longer the previously highly restricted list. I would say that is a pretty good indication of what a professional is.

[mrsseed]

Thurlow, I'm being pedantic too!!

[simbacatlivesgain]

simbacatlivesagain Yet I've never met a commercial lawyer who doesn't describe themselves as professional. So while that might be your definition, it's not one that others use.

But wouldnt they still be a member of their professional body? Lots of people are who dont need to be because of the role that they do. The difference is that if they have been barred then they cant belong to the body.

I cant think that many companies would employ someone who had been barred. Basic background checks would show that.

[CalamitouslyWrong]

People might say it's 'a professional job' for a variety of reasons around preserving some kind of anonymity. They might be trying to indicate that it's reasonably well paid, or the might be trying to indicate that they think of it as a 'career' rather than a 'job', or they might be trying to give some indication of responsibility and working hours depending on what they're actually saying in a thread, but without having to say exactly what they do.

[fredfredgeorgejnr]

simbacastlivesagain Look up the people who get struck off, you'll see they're generally still in "professional" jobs related to law.

I also don't get it as a shorthand, a lot of non-professional jobs involve a lot of stress, a lot of long hours etc. And many professional jobs don't involve a lot of stress or long hours. So it's pretty lousy shorthand if that's what you're trying to get across.

I'll support the librarians to say it though...

[GentlyBenevolent]

It should mean a fully qualified member of a traditional profession. But people seem to use it to mean 'a job in an office' these days. Another example of the mutability of language.

[Thurlow]

fred

Librarian once got voted the most stressful job - because it was apparently so boring!!!

[TrevaronGirl]

Quite agree gently

[MaidOfStars]

I'd classify it as having an occupation which requires a specific qualification at degree level or above (usually postgraduate). Also there would be a professional governing body. So doctors, vets, dentists, accountants, engineers, midwives, lawyers, architects, social workers, teachers, nurses, university professor, post doc scientist, senior civil servants

I was one of those things, and am on the way to being a second. However, there isn't a professional governing body for my field (research fellow, medical/biological science). I know there are moves to make one, but at the moment there isn't.

[WeldedParentMaterials]

But Gently what are the "traditional professions"? Doctors, lawyers and accountants seem to be the only obvious ones to me.

Once we start including anyone with a degree, or membership of a Chartered body, or anyone who passes exams to do a certain job, we may as well include anyone, especially these days.

[TrevaronGirl]

The three traditional professions were law, medicine and clergy.

[WeldedParentMaterials]

I mean, I think a pilot should be in there above a social worker or nurse, say, but then if you include pilot should you include a captain of a ship? Then a train driver? Who also needs to pass tests and have a licence to do the job. Then an articulated lorry driver?

[Lilymaid]

Librarian once got voted the most stressful job - because it was apparently so boring!!!
Probably the reason I am MNing today in work time. Really slow day, though I should be concentrating on getting my budget for next year together.

[Iggi999]

In that list, I think if you're including social workers, teachers, other civil servants in it then the list needs to be a lot wider and include things like police, occupational therapists, radiographers etc.
This is very interesting. Social workers and teachers certainly have a professional body, so do the police but it's not an entirely graduate profession. No idea re radiographers.

[HedgehogsDontBite]

Well I never. Did you know that there is an official international list of occupations which are 'professional'? So the professionals are:

Science and engineering professionals:

• Physical and earth science professionals
• Mathematicians, actuaries and statisticians
• Life science professionals
• Engineering professionals (excluding electrotechnology)
• Electrotechnology engineers
• Architects, planners, surveyors and designers

Health professionals:

• Medical doctors
• Nursing and midwifery professionals
• Traditional and complementary medicine professionals
• Paramedical practitioners
• Veterinarians
• Other health professionals
• Medical Assistant professionals

Teaching professionals:

• University and higher education teachers
• Vocational education teachers
• Secondary education teachers
• Primary school and early childhood teachers
• Other teaching professionals

Business and administration professionals:

• Finance professionals
• Administration professionals
• Sales, marketing and public relations professionals

Information and communications technology professionals:

• Software and applications developers and analysts
• Database and network professionals

Legal, social and cultural professionals:

• Legal professionals
• Librarians, archivists and curators
• Social and religious professionals
• Authors, journalists and linguists
• Creative and performing artists

United Nations International Standard Classification of Occupations (Thanks Mr Google)

[WeldedParentMaterials]

Haha Hedgehog, so it literally is every job these days!

I do find the Business and Administration examples very vague.

And the health care ones.

[echt]

I've never thought of teaching as a profession, largely because it was the government, not the teachers who devised the, ahem, professional body to represent them, the GCTE. Real professionals organise their own.

Also real professions are not fucked around from pillar to post as teachers are.

I regard teaching as a very important job.

[Iggi999]

GTC Scotland is not arranged like that.

[campingfilth]

I thought it meant that you were attached to a professional body and had to adhere to certain regulations and that it was a job you could lose if you acted in an illegal/unprofessional/immoral/neglectful way.

[flora717]

According to that list my DH is a professional, but he'd never use that. He uses his (abbreviated mainly) job title because that carries meaning across his line of work. Saying you're a professional blah in his line of work just wouldn't carry anything (he has a degree as do some others but the job means you start at the bottom end and learn, train, do repeat, repeat for each level).
Professional is overused. Especially by Letting Agents who mean 'working'.

[Greywackejones]

Quite funny

I classify it as thinking one has a vocation. Not a job.

I was HR. Always viewed it as a job. So it was. Did x got paid y.

Others talk about it like I split the atom.

[TwoLittleTerrors]

I remember when DH and I rented our first flat in the UK about 10 years ago. The landlord specified it's for people in professional jobs only. We were really confused as we thought it means only people who work in professions that need certification. Like doctors, lawyers, accountants etc. We were both postdocs and weren't sure if we were professionals! We asked the agent and he said it's just anyone with a job that's better than minimum wage. Talk about a broad definition.

hedgehog I'm in this

Information and communications technology professionals: - Software and applications developers and analysts

We definitely do not dress smart . I think this contradicts with a poster saying it's only for people who wear smart clothes to work. I would assume a software developer or analyst is professional despite not belonging to any certification bodies?

[ConcreteElephant]

Blimey, I wish my years as a librarian in a very busy public library had been boring!

I'm no longer public facing and, boy, does it make a difference to my stress levels. Still in a professional post though - that is to say, one which requires me to be qualified to Masters level having followed an approved (by my professional body) course.

[TrevaronGirl]

"We asked the agent and he said it's just anyone with a job that's better than minimum wage"

That seems to be the common perception these days! :)

[WeldedParentMaterials]

Estate agents specifying a "professional" for renting a flat is utterly ridiculous IMO