Help me out here/ urgent

[Kab13]

At a soft play, 90% sure there's aan taking photos of random children. Seem him sat on his phone with camera on. Told the managers don't seem to be doing much .
Not sure if he got a shot of my dd who ran infront of him. He's acting very shifty.
What do I do?
He's here with his son...

[Squobble]

Echoing the earlier poster who said snapchat - sometimes mid conversation there is nothing to snap other than a nearby table/chair before adding your text.

[funkybuddah]

I've not read the whole thread but he could have the camera on so he can 'catch' his child as they go by/waiting for other kids to move out the way. He could be trying to take discrete snapchat selfies and is trying not to be caught pulling a funny face (I'm not even joking here)

Personally I wouldn't have reacted to a father using his camera (how many threads do we have about people saying they will film the nativity despite being told no, this is similar TBh) but you felt uncomfortable, reported it and remained aware. There isn't more you can do as there is very little that rings alarm bells for me.

[theendoftheendoftheend]

Official guidance is that EVERYONE is responsible for safeguarding children (Working together to safeguard children 2013) people are encouraged to report anything that concerns them. If its all innocent and there are no concerns no harm done, if it isn't its potantially valuable information lost. No one on here knows who he was or what he was doing. If OP had of reported it to the police she the information would have been recorded, assessed and appropriate action taken. Berating OP for her concerns about something that no one else had witnessed was really quite poor.

[forumdonkey]

No offence taken Ilovepud that is what a public forum is for My final word from personal experience (not speaking from professional) is the way to help protect your DC's is education and educating them from an early age. It can be done age appropriately - no one is allowed to touch them in swim suit area, make them feel uncomfortable or scared. You are allowed to have surprises (where others will eventually know) but nobody should ask to keep secrets etc etc. They should know they can tell anyone other than you, if there is something bothering or worrying them, eg an aunt, a teacher, a grandparent etc

[DoubleValiumLattePlease]

The poor man was probably bored witless and watching Sky News or something on his phone. The fact is that the OP did not and could not see what he was doing with his phone and the whole premise of her hysteria is conjecture.
I'd take the word of a professional in the field any single day of any week over the chattering brigade who are making this a very difficult world for men.

[ILovePud]

I think this thread has touched a nerve for me and I felt that the OP was being bullied earlier on, I didn't set out to be rude to anyone, sorry if I have been Donkey. There's clearly some very different perspectives on this issue but obviously I hope this was just an innocent dad cack-handedly taking selfies.

[SuggestmeaUsername]

I think OP was right to be concerned. It may have been nothing but the OP believed the man was using his camera in a suspicious way so was best to report it to management. She asked on MN for advice and views on what to do but some on here seem to have mocked her. not sure why people think it is okay to do that

[forumdonkey]

But the OP didn't see anything! Thats the point. A man alone with his children seemed to have his phone up taking photos, of what is not known because it wasn't seen. OP herself said she was only 90% sure and in the context of the surroundings and the fact he neither approached or spoke to any child I really don't see other than OP's opinion that it made her feel uneasy that this poor guy did anything wrong. Its piss poor if a bloke can't get his phone out for the fear of accusations. OP didn't feel confident enough in her convictions to approach the guy and polite ask him not to take photos, neither did the centre staff who IMO after being alerted to it should have approached him.

I don't think IMO from the OP any child was in any danger from this man, by where he was or by his actions.

[ILovePud]

It'd be more of a shame if the thread put off a parent or carer who had concerns from speaking out for fear of being labelled hysterical or having their concerns derided as happened to the OP.

[forumdonkey]

Ilovepud I agree and I think there is someone who does work for the police in child exploitation on this board somewhere and I would love for their input and opinion I really would.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

And that would highlight you lack some understanding of the CP process.

[forumdonkey]

I have bobbed in and out of this thread a lot today - damn illness keeping me in tonight and not until the very end have I disclosed why I say what I did. In a lot of my posts I have said IME rather than IMO I have also stated I have got very real and personal experience (not professional) for my posts and opinions.

Most on here will have DH's, DP's, DB's, DF's and DS's etc and I think it is a shame that they may one day feel unable to take their children anywhere and not get their phone out for the fear that out of hysteria someone might be 90% sure they are taking inappropriate photos, despite not seeing any photo to indicate so. FFS this man might have been taking selfies thus the camera being on, sat there bored to tears waiting for his DC's

I stand by everything I posted that, this man didn't talk or approached any child other than his own, was in a place where children are only allowed if supervised by an adult and all children would have been fully clothed, unlike in a pool and was obviously not discreet by his actions or the camera noise on his phone.

Where is common sense? It doesn't matter if you do or don't work in any field

[Icimoi]

It sounds as if the three women reporting this were basically wound up by each other, given that it appears each report was made publicly and audibly as OP knew all about the other two. But if that is the case, it's interesting that none of the other parents backed them up.

[ILovePud]

Well I can say I'm an astronaut or a jockey or a professional ice sculptor on here.....I think saying you're a CP professional just sounds wanky in this context. I think only a police officer would be qualified to comment (in a professional capacity) on whether contacting the police in this situation would be appropriate.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

People who work in CP will know better than most what is considered a safe guarding issue, ILove and given this is a parenting forum, are likely to be parents themselves.

So whilst their opinion isn't necessarily more valid than anybody else's, the 'frame of reference' which helps form the opinion probably is.

[ILovePud]

I really hate it when people trot out 'I do x y or Z for a living' to try and say that their opinions are more valid than others', it's a parenting forum, people can answer from their frame of reference as parents. We have no way of knowing whether you or anyone else works in safeguarding and you have no idea what the professional backgrounds of people who have posted in support of the OP's course of action are.

[forumdonkey]

theendoftheendoftheend you missed off what my DC's had to go through 10 yrs ago - damn that'd be gloating too. Sorry if my experiences and opinions offend but I neither care nor change them.

[theendoftheendoftheend]

I wouldn't gloat about working in CP and Safeguarding, although given your opinions I wouldn't be suprised if you do!

[forumdonkey]

Its strange how both MrsDeVere and I work in CP and Safeguarding in a professional capacity and we both seem to post very similar views. Maybe because we are posting from our experience rather than opinion. I also have very real experience regarding CP and my own DC's and yes I still think it is hysteria instead of common sense.

[ILovePud]

They are all if's and that's why it's best to inform the police and let them decide what if any action to take. If he had convictions for offences against children then he may well not be supposed to have unsupervised contact with kids or go to play centres but sadly, especially as convictions are so hard to achieve in this area, there's an awful lot more people that the police have intelligence on than are convicted and even if someone is convicted and isn't supposed to do certain things it doesn't mean they won't. I agree with you that the police are unlikely to send cars with blues and twos on straight round but it still doesn't mean reporting it is worthless, hysterical or to be derided.

[Lifesalemon]

I get what you are saying regarding OP donkey
That's why I've not actually posted an opinion on that. I've been watching the thread and can see both sides. I agree that taking photos of random children seems dodgy but if it was anything sinister surely he would have been more discreet about it and I can't see a possible reason he would have for taking the photos in the first place. If it was a beach or a swimming pool that would be different but I really am sitting on the fence with this one.

[forumdonkey]

All if's Ilovepud. Lets assume this man was known to police for child exploitation/ sex offences do you think he woulod be allowed unsupervised visits to a childrens play centre with his own children? Not unheard of but very unlikely. I stand by what I say that on the evidence presented the police are unlikely to react to this IME

[forumdonkey]

I appreciate that especially with LAC's there is sometimes limitations but when my children were in primary school it was due to hysterical mothers and being worried about pedophiles.

With this OP I can't see where there was any safeguarding issues here. The man wasn't approaching or talking to any children other than his own and appeared (not confirmed) to be taking photos, which could be selfies but it appears nobody saw any actual pictures just heard a clicking noise (again not very discreet if that was what he was trying to be) Due to the age restrictions in these places children are not allowed in unsupervised so all children would have had a parent or guardian with them. I really can't see where the CP Safeguarding issue is.

[ILovePud]

Not on it's own Donkey but if there had been a number of complaints about a man doing this in the area or if indeed he was known to the police then I think it would be treated as a CP concern.

[forumdonkey]

If this man was allegedly taking photos inside the play area not of his own children it is bad manners and inappropriate IME it would not be viewed as a CP/ Safeguarding concern by the police nor SS.