aibu re paying builder in cash?

[mutternutter]

Please advise me. Renovating a house for me and DC. On my own. Went via check workman type website. Got three quotes ect
Picked builder. Checked his work ect. First job done. He text me a few days ago wanting paying in cash. I was a not shocked as thought this was a no no.
Job finished yesterday.2_pm he called me asking for cash as needed to pay workers. Told him was paying by.building soc.check. He wanted cash. Then asked for it to be paid into his bank Acc asap. Like in next half hour.
Wasn't happy when told couldn't due to school run. He then text his bank details and not happy could not do it until this morning. He wanted to know what time I could do it.
Told him need receipt and work guarantee. He email and txt re cash.between 11pm and 1.30am. First text on phone his at 7am today. He would email and then text to say he had sent email. He has only done this re cash. Never did it before. He also has key to property but locks being changed.anyway. is this wrong? Muddy headed due to my mh issues
Need.to know or advice needed please. Does anyone have experience of building trade or am I buhelp have no one to help.or advise me
Tia

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

Million, he hasn't supplied her because she hasn't met him to give the cash surely?

It sounds like a big miscommunication. He probably didn't mention cash as he assumes everyone pays by cash. Op didn't mention cheque as she assumes everyone pAys by cheque.

However, it is very unfair to not pay him regardless of staff etc and I would have arranged to be there earlier in the day of completion to check his work.

[Szeli]

Back2two Oh the luxury of overdraft facilities and a monthly payroll. If the self employed routinely had these things there wouldn't be a problem. Low paid self employed is a horrible position to be in, really screwed out of any rights. You rely on that cash for each job and yes cash is preferable and not dodgy. Texting a client at 11pm isn't great tho although once or twice I must admit I've done it because I've not realised the time after working late (never payment related tho, touch wood I've been mostly lucky there)

[MrsPiggie]

As others said, nothing wrong with paying by cash as long as you get a receipt. I prefer bank transfer. He is pestering you because tradesmen have a hard time sometimes trying to get their money after work completion.

[TheGirlFromIpanema]

Paying in cash is preferable for so many trades. For a start a business account will charge for each debit & credit. So if he receives a cheque she/he will be charged for the credit and then be charged for each payment out of that for staff and materials.

Secondly, subbies on a day rate will always want paying at the end of each day, in cash. Its the only way they don't end up chasing around for their earnings.

Trade discounts are sometimes only avaialable at builders merchants when paying immediately rather than cheque. Some smaller yards etc don't have facility for card payments still so cash is the only way.

For some reason very many people believe they can haggle prices down/not pay at all after domestic building work is completed So insisting on cash on completeion is the only way they can ensure this doesn't happen.

Lastly VAT invoices are only issued by VAT registered business!! It is kind of irrelevent to the customer whether they are Vat registered or not. Most small builders won't be registered.

Gah.

OP just pay the poor bloke.

[TheAlias]

Szeli, have you employed a builder recently? No SE builder, in a position to be employing others, can be described as low paid. And neither should they, obviously they should get a fair price etc but there's no way they can be described as low paid. Obviously some earn more than others due to how good they are at both the actual work and running/marketing the business but when they have work they do pretty well.

I do think the OP should pay by bank tf promptly but I also think the builder needs to allow time for the work to be checked first. If cashflow's really as tight as this, he's not managing his business properly. (said by someone who's been involved with the family building firm for 30+ years)

[FraidyCat]

I was going to say nothing wrong with paying in cash and unreasonable not to pay immediately, but having re-read the post:-

I'd pay cash if it was a few hundred pounds, if thousands then not as it would be a hassle to get together.

OP does need to see the work before paying.

I don't think tax is the issue, he is happy to have a transfer, just wants it immediately.

I think some tradesmen do have a short-term outlook, cash at the end of the day is real to them and an invoice payment at the end of the month is just a vague promise of a future reward that may or may not materialise. The builder himself may not be like this but the plasterer or decorator he's got in for a day or two's work possibly are, so he really does need to hand over cash at the end of the day. I think it's possible that a part-time decorator or plasterer, living hand-to-mouth, might only be induced to turn up by the promise of payment on the day. If he hands over cash before you've paid him then he's risking being out-of-pocket if you don't pay him.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Let him know when you can get over and inspect.

Was there a payment terms agreed when you got your quote? Usually - because small businesses have to pay their staff and for supplies, the turnaround is quite tight. I pay either cash or straight into their bank accounts the same day.

[TheAlias]

The bank charges thing is a red herring. It costs a few pence to process a cheque through a bank account, cheaper than the petrol to collect the cash.

[TheGonnagle]

Please pay him. He probably has a lot outstanding at the builders merchants and wants to get it paid off this morning.
We're often in this position and it's a nightmare.

[douchbag]

My husband has been stung quite a few times with people not paying so expects payment after complication asap.

[diddl]

The job finished at 2pm yesterday & OP is planning to transfer money today?

Seems ok to me!

[diddl]

People are making it sound as if OP is either not planning to pay, or planning to wait six months or something!

Surely it's not up to the builder to dictate how/when OP pays (unless specified when work agreed?)

[Clarabumps]

I'd love to see if I could go into a shop and buy my weeks shopping but say "I'll come back and pay you tomorrow if that's okay?"

Tradesperson has paid out money for materials etc so deserves to be paid at the point of completion. This really pisses me off when people hang about to pay. He's done his job and deserves to be paid in the quickest way possible.

We have a kitchen fitting business.
This week was a prime example. DH has been working on a job for three weeks. Materials cost in excess of £1000 which have been paid out, he has also had to hire a labourer for three days.Then diesel costs. So we are around £1500 worse off and three weeks without a wage. DH asked if he could be paid cash or bank transfer. Customer agreed to this and DH took a wee bit off the bill due to the fact that was a lot better for us as we need the money(like, now).

Job finished yesterday. CHEQUE!!!!!!!!!!
And they were at the fact that DP wasn't delighted. It's seriously as if he hasn't worked for it and they are gifting him the money. SO now we won't get any money till next Tuesday.

[snickers251]

We get paid cash occasionally but it still goes through the books

I know all too well what happens when people forget to pay or pay with cheque (we don't request payment in cash upon completion were too polite lol) but there have been times where our trade account is at its limit and we have to wait for payment, if someone forgets or takes their time we are not able to buy any more materials until that person has paid from the previous job. Thankfully our suppliers keep upping our credit limit but imagine a newly self employed tradesmen with little history and little credit?
In the early days if we got a late pay we would have to use our own money to pay of our account and staff but not everyone these days is lucky enough to have savings.

[WhereIsMyHat]

Yes, cash is totally normal. When we had building work. Recently we set out a schedule of works that outlined what we'd pay at the completion of certain things. It worked well, we agreed payment was every Friday afternoon, in cash and if that was going to be a problem we'd let him know in advance and either pay early or late (in one case we paid early On the Wednesday as we were away and the second case on the Saturday as our bank was being annoying). Do you have anything like this on your contract/ agreement?

[SaucyJack]

Wanting to check the work before paying him is perfectly reasonable, but you should tell him that's what you're doing and give him a time soon after to collect the money or check bank.

I think if you've been umm-ing and ahh-ing with him like you have in your OP he's bound to be getting uneasy about not being paid.

DP works in a trade, and every so often he gets customers that are so paranoid in being ripped off themselves, that he ends up being ripped off instead.

There's nothing dodgy in the man wanting to be paid for work that's been completed.

[Szeli]

Perhaps not a builder as much but certainly other trades people, but even still, builders are not rolling in it it real terms. The fee you pay isn't their wage. It's to cover tools, materials, insurance, planning times, book keeping time, 'holiday pay', 'sick pay'.... etc

[WalkingInMemphis]

The bank charges thing is a red herring. It costs a few pence to process a cheque through a bank account, cheaper than the petrol to collect the cash

I disagree. If the builder has to withdraw cash to pay workers that can be very expensive - some business accounts charge 3.5% of the value withdrawn.

Why would there be a problem in paying cash? It probably is a tax dodge but that's no concern of yours. I've had lots of cash discounts in the past - ranging from building/central heating work to my wedding dress! I try not to think about the reason they give a discount for cash...that's their business and tbph I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[mrswishywashy]

I'm self employed and my father has also been a self employed builder.

It's far better business practice to mail or email and invoice when work is finished or part way through and put payment date on it. I have late payment fees in my contract as well.

It does mean budgeting but it works well. Doesn't sound like OP builder has good business practice.

I'd be wanting an invoice of work done and a receipt of money given especially if paying in cash.

[MrsPiddlewink]

My DH is a plasterer. We invoice on a Friday and state 7 days in our terms.

On large jobs he makes it clear up front that staged payments are required for material purchases and contractor costs.

This is the difference between a normal employee and a self employed builder. Laughable that you've made the comparrison. Do you have to fork out £1000+ on steels mid month? Pay a labourers wages at the end of the week?

That being said, my DH would never hassle a customer for payment, unless it was particularly overdue. It often leaves us in tight spots, but it's not right to phone/email late at night demanding cash.

Cash is always preferable, and often yhe price for cash will be cheaper because it's a bloody nightmare waiting for a cheque to clear or having to withdraw funds to pay workmen.

Currently we are waiting on over £1000. Just over £600 of this is from a contractor who is awaiting payment from a customer, the rest is a cheque that got sent out unsigned, so we are waiting on another. Both jobs were completed a month ago. It's a right pain.... and has meant we missed out on booking a Christmas treat for the kids because are cash flow was so restricted. I can imagine for someone with even tighter finances it might have meant no food shopping.

[MrsPiddlewink]

doh... *our!

[gobbynorthernbird]

As the builder had asked for cash before the job was finished, and the OP didn't say anything at the time, the OP is being VVU.

[Squeegle]

Can people be a little kinder? OP has already said she's muddy headed due to MH issues.

A bit of constructive help would be better than some of the censorious comments in this thread. Have a heart folks.

[WooWooOwl]

It the builders business if he's dodging tax, nothing to do with you.

But it would definitely put me off using this builder because he's being so pushy, a decent business should be able to wait a couple of weeks let alone a couple of hours to be paid, and if they can't I'd be worried that they weren't reputable and wouldn't have the funds to complete the job. Never pay workmen until they have done a good job, and definitely don't pay the final balance to builders until after they have had a chance to do the snagging, which shouldn't happen until at least a couple of weeks after the main work has finished.