Extreme Brat Camp - ch4 now

[PourquoiTuGachesTaVie]

Some of these children are far too young to be in a place like this. They have FIVE year olds there. Wtf?

[BertieBotts]

Sounds good ItsAll :) I am not a prison expert I must admit!

[Aeroflotgirl]

This style is not uncommon in the military, tge people running it were ex military, yes I still think this style should be adopted within UK prisons. After all it's meant to be punitive, not like a holiday camp. This discipline would be good for them in day to day life. Along side rehabilitation. I know people will eye roll, but tgey are treated better than elderly in care homes or people in hospital, it should not be like that. I remember watching something about prisons, and the ex prisoners were saying that life was better inside than on tge outside.

[Aeroflotgirl]

There was a programme a while back about Army life, it was similar, if it's good enough for the Army, it's good enough for prisoners.

[wantstolickwilliamgraham]

Yanbu that's awful, especially ones so little. If you get to the point you have to torture-and sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture- your 5 year old then i'm sorry bit I would class that as a failure. I cant imagine what is going on in their heads or what manipulations you would have to be subject to to allow it.

Would a change.org petition to get Ofcom to take it off the air on the grounds of child abuse or endangerment get their attention?

[wantstolickwilliamgraham]

Itsgoingtobefine out of interest what do Norway do differently to get that low percent.

I don't know about doing t in prisons but aero is right that prisoners do get better treatment then our vulnerable or elderly. I think that's a whole other interesting debate though.

[Aeroflotgirl]

If it's that torturous why are the Army and Marines taking part in it. Would do our prisoners well to have a military regime in prison. Children for goodness sakes no, it was distressing to see these extremly young xhikdren being sleep deprived, shouted at, doing excercise that even grown men would find hard. For prisoners who have committed the most heinous of crimes, I have no problem.,

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I'm shocked from what I've read here and unsure whether I want to watch it.

Trouble is that the US won't give a flying f@ck what we think in the UK based on one program. It's something that needs aware eds raising, investigation and sanctioning within their country.

I'm so sad that whatever our problems, we do t have this undercurrent of sadistic pleasure in breaking someone's spirit, enjoying humiliation, torture and bending someone to their will under the guise of doing a 'good thing'.

It's a weirdly deviant approach and although I'm sure the vast majority of Americans don't endorse this, it's unsettling that this exists.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Typo: Awareness not 'aware eds'

[wantstolickwilliamgraham]

It's torturous if extreme, they use it to torture in places probably like Guantanamo bay. Minor sleep deprivation in adults most people go through at some point. It's probably used in the army to break people in a way and remake them so that they are able to do their jobs. Just as some athletes and fighters put their bodies through hell, it conditions them to perform better. At a very mild end Exercise can be extremely painful and grueling to start but again it causes your body to adapt the way you want it to.

On children it's abuse and torturous on army people who have chosen to do that job it's an endurance, on anyone else it's torturous if extreme.

[FrozenAteMyDaughter]

This was awful. I found myself willing the children on to refuse to comply (except the consequences were so awful for them). Why should they shovel dirt all night? They hadn't committed any crimes nor had they volunteered to join the army. Yet just because they are children and weak and defenceless they can be forced to do this stuff? The world was rightly horrified by Guantanamo and that was grown adults. Giving the same kind of treatment to young children beggars belief. It was the parents who needed training in discipline not the children.

Also there was a very sexist angle to all this. What was that man saying to the boy about it being hard growing up the only boy? And another one asking a child (who appeared to have been no more than a bit cheeky and defiant) if he thought he was top dog because he was surrounded by women? And why did boys stay 30 days and girls just the weekend? It seemed to be setting up a very sexist attitude amongst children who didn't seem to have had any such thoughts up to that point.

But the worst bit really was it didn't even seem to work but they just kept on sending their kids away for more of the same. You got the feeling with at least one of the parents it was just a way of avoiding doing any proper parenting herself.

[Hatespiders]

I expect the Americans would retort that our youth here in UK seem to them to be out of control. drunken and many on drugs. If one watches those Police programmes in cities after midnight, with youngsters coming out of clubs blind drunk, violent and needing Police intervention, I suppose they have a point. But this sort of ' boot camp discipline' is NOT the answer.

Parenting is never easy or trouble-free.; children can be the very devil sometimes. It takes skilful handling and perseverance to get them onto the right track. I think these USA 'parents' have just opted out in a rather lazy way, and handed their offspring over to the Gestapo, aided and abetted by the Childcatcher (viz Chity Chitty Bang Bang)

We are still upset after watching the programme. I couldn't watch it again if you paid me!

[Minikievs]

I didn't see this but it is exactly the sort of thing I would normally watch (from the programme title) From the posts above there is no way in the world I will be watching it. And it will be preying on my mind all day now just from what people have said. Since I've had children I really struggle to watch any form of child abuse programmes, read articles, news stories etc. those poor poor children. WTAF are their parents thinking?!

[Aeroflotgirl]

When I saw those chikdren marching up that hill, and a little girl no older than dd 7.5 years carrying a little pink Hello Kitty rucksack on her back

[Nancy66]

I watched it last night.

As much as we all bleat on about 'the nanny state' and 'health and safety' - that sort of place would never be permitted to operate here and thank god for that. No training, no insurance, no monitoring by a governing body. Jesus.

Poor little Bryce he just seemed broken and deeply depressed at the age of 10. His mother demanding he calls her 'ma'm' - you're his mother you stupid woman.

As for the other clueless mother spending about £30k on sending her son to some religious camp because he used his computer too much! He'd already been there - it didn't work the first time so why would it work again?! It was obvious that the kid's problems were because he was bullied at school. So what's her solution? Send him off to a camp to be bullied by adults.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I agree Nancy totally, the problems mainly lie within the parents lack of boundaries, not following through. One of the parents admitted that they never follow through threats, why not!!! Its the parents that needed this, not their children. There was a documentary about kids not long ago, the expert placed most of the onus on the parent not instilling boundaries or rules. Yes that ma'm thing, no your his mother fgs!

[BarbarianMum]

I did feel a degree of sympathy with some of the parents though. It must be extremely tough to raise a son in a family where every other male member of your family is on drugs or in prison - esp in communities where this is the norm.

Not that I think using preemptive child abuse as a deterrent is the solution but I can see how strict discipline and 'respect' must seem very alluring in those circumstances. What a pity real support isn't available for some of these vulnerable families.

[lucy123abc]

I understand why most of the messages here are anti the brat camp show but I would like to offer another view, my sister lives in Florida and has a boy the same age as Bryce and equally defiant, she paddles when he needs it. I am sorry to say that Bryce's mom reflects a mother incapable of discipline on hr own is she a sole parent maybe?. I heard some of the things that go on when the parents leave Camp Consequence and would not send my son there. Corporal punishment of kids is permitted in my home State. My family is in UK for a two year assignment and will be returning to Florida in 2016. I wish all you liberal moms all the best with your kids discipline as they grow.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I wish you all he best with yours as they grow thinking it's ok to beat on people

[Hatespiders]

"...she paddles when he needs it..."

Do you perhaps mean she beats him when she no longer has any patience?

And why should a single parent be incapable of discipline?? I was alone in my classroom with 30 children, and would never ever have even considered any form of beating, even if it had been legal here, which thankfully it isn't.

Millions of single parents in UK bring up their dc beautifully thank you, without bashing and abusing them.

[Bulbasaur]

The shows are scripted and the kids are hired because they're easy to work with.

They will be encouraged to throw a tantrum, or improve a scenario or talk back to authority. Then at the end they will be equally encouraged to shape up and act good. If they were truly that difficult and hard to work with, they would not be there getting paid to do what the director tells them.

[Bulbasaur]

Do you perhaps mean she beats him when she no longer has any patience?

That's now how the paddle works.

Come now, let's not use hyperbole simply because you disagree with a discipline method. Americans aren't running around beating their children black and blue with wooden sticks. Come now.

That's as silly as saying you guys just talk to your children to death. That'll learn them.

Typically how it works is:

• You get a warning.
  
• You get a warning that the next punishment is the paddle.
  
• You are told to bend over and you get three swats to the butt.
  
• You are given a talk about why the behavior is wrong.
  
• You get a hug, or affirmation parent still loves you and are sent back to play.
  

Or in school instead of a talk you get a bible verse.

DH got the paddle growing up from his mother and grew up to be a well mannered young man. He loved his mother to pieces and would happily take a bullet for her. His grandmother made him pick his own switch, and he laughs about it now as an adult. He loved his grandma to death too. As did all his cousins who grew up with the same punishments. The key is, they were firm, but very loving.

In contrast, his father never laid a hand on him, was mentally abusive and he hates seeing his father to this day.

I never got spanked growing up, and I still had good manners.

It's just a different discipline method. I don't know anyone that has come away scarred from getting paddled. I do know people that have come away scarred from abuse, and there is a difference between 3 swats and getting beat.

[Hatespiders]

"...his grandmother made him pick his own switch..."
"...at school you get a Bible verse..."

I find this utterly sinister and creepy; Mr Murdstone in David Copperfield springs to mind.

I'm glad in UK we don't have any institutional beatings. And very, very few parents here would beat a child with a 'paddle' or a 'switch'. To then quote the Bible is...well, words fail.

Physical violence towards an adult is a criminal offence; why should a vulnerable young child not be accorded the same protection?

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Sorry but it is fucked up and not some wonderful vision of cosy family life to calmly beat your child on their arse with an implement.

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

Bulbasaur: as I cannot give my opinion of your ILs methods without resorting to the vilest obscenities, I shall refrain. They may have restrained thselves, but they justified the others who didn't.

My brother had to go into the garden and pick his own cane. Then pick a thicker one. Then pick a thicker one. I still mourn the happy boy who grew into an angry fearful man, who has failed in every relationship, who defines himself by his hatreds. I'm not much better, but my beatings were more impromptu and I eventually fought back.