Paying for private school a poor investment in kids' future

[womblesofwestminster]

AIBU to wonder what all the private-school-paying parents think of this? (I know MN has a disproportionate amount of them).

"The research shows that a private-school education may help you get to university, but is of no help once you are there and of no help later once you try to enter the workforce"

www.tourismportdouglas.com.au/Paying-for-private-school-a-poor-investm.11742.0.html

Rich people just love their kids that little bit more, obv.

No of course not. But I think it's ridiculous to think that wealth does not afford people advantages or that they are horrible nasty people if they do use their money for the benefit of their children.

What about people who can afford to live in naice areas with naice (state) schools? Is that not pretty much the same thing?

My 'sweet little unworldly-wise head' chose private over State so my kids could have continuity in their education. No more, no less.

"Most seem to have a self assurance and social ease I haven't often seen in those from state schools."

Or it might be that you're mistaking an astonishing sense of entitlement for confidence and social ease.

This would happen within your own family if you chose to spend twice as much money and effort on one child's well-being as on your other.

When a child knows they are given privileges and made to feel important and singled out from the herd for special treatment, they do tend to absorb the message that they are more important than others.

"if they do use their money for the benefit of their children"

Education and life in general is extremely competitive. If wealthy people want to use their money to help their children clamber up over the backs of poor children in order to grab all the prizes - well, wasn't it just ever thus?

Clamber over the backs of poor children?! Come on now.

Realistically what do you propose that's not head in the clouds dreaming?

Well you do use your money to give your children an advantage over similarly clever children in state schools, don't you?

At least I'd assume that you'd expect better outcomes for 14K a year than you'd get at your local school?

My dd went to an independent from 11 to 18. She passed her A levels. She also gained access to a middle class world and guidance in how to navigate life within it, which has been invaluable.

I was not well off. I was a single parent by then. Her first year at high school was fully funded under the 'assisted places' scheme. She and I 'went without' other things because her education was a priority.

DDs first day in her independent high school was also my first day in an inner city comprehensive. There genuinely are intelligent, hardworking young people who can match the achievements of independently educated pupils - but they are in a minority - maybe 1%, and it takes courage and single-mindedness to be that person in an inner-city environment.

When a child knows they are given privileges and made to feel important and singled out from the herd for special treatment, they do tend to absorb the message that they are more important than others.

In my experience of being a privately schooled child, children don't know they are given privileges or feel that they have been singled out from the herd. Their 'herd' is other private school children just like them, so they feel exactly the same as their peers. All children can be made to feel important to parents who care about them, and every child can and should be made to feel important to their school.

When I was at my private primary school, I genuinely didn't even know that I was at a private school, it was just school. I've had the conversation with my school friends that I'm still in touch with, and they all felt the same except one who's parents went out if their way to tell her that she was at a private school. But then her parents let her down in plenty of ways and she had a pretty dysfunctional upbringing.

I never realised it was any different to any other school until I went to secondary and even then I was still surrounded by normal people so it didn't feel like we were more important than others at all. Probably because we weren't.

I think this apparent feeling of superiority that private school children are supposed to have is something that is made up by people who aren't happy with their own choices, and I completely disagree that it happens as standard.

Wombles- the state school we were offered was 5.5 miles away (I don't have a car) and has a shit ofsted rating. If we had got into our local good primary they would go there, but no luck.

I guess that's another vote in favour of our private school - it's secular.

So to answer your question- no I don't think they would be happy in a shit school miles away from home.

I have a state school education (council estate primary and local comp) good O levels, crappy A levels and dropped out of my BSc in the 2nd year as it wasn't for me. I was capable of much more but wasn't really pushed at home or at school and I just got bored with education as I hit 20.
I used to work for one the leading global consulting firms, where there is stiff competition to get in from graduates. I got in on experience (by some fluke). There were people I worked with there went to private school and good universities as well as people from state schools and polytechnic degrees (showing my age) and you know what? We were all just people doing a job and it was confidence, hard work, ambition and drive that got you progression, no one gave a toss what school or uni you went to. I did sometimes think what a waste of money the school fees were for some of my colleagues when lots of us had gone to state school and doing every bit as well.
So I would agree with the sentiment of the report in the quotes above. An education can get you so far, but it is your attitude and drive that overtake that in the workforce.
However, people are free to spend their money as they please and if you can afford it and have the choice to use independent schools, then best of luck to you.
Calling a private education a 'poor investment' is a bit harsh, as people's idea of a good investment means different things to different people. I would agree that a private education is no guarantee of earning a high salary when you leave.

I will be honest and say that I am, without a doubt, sending my DS to a private Grammar in 2 years to give my child an advantage.

This is not because I want him to clamber over the backs of poor children. I am working class, we live in what is considered to be a deprived area and I am a single Mum. I know that I will be seriously skint for 5 years (at least) but I think it will be worth it.

He is summer born, has made a huge effort to be at the same level (if not above) the Autumn born kids in his class. He is quite sensitive at times, but can also get distracted by the more boisterous element in class. I will happily admit, I would prefer smaller class sizes for him and hopefully less of a disruptive element in his class.

Our local state senior schools are not great and all the Ofsted reports have stated they all need to improve how they challenge and push the more able pupils. This is also what friends have said about the schools.

I left school with 1 CSE and a City and Guilds in typing. I have worked my backside off to get where I am in my career and am currently doing a Post-Grad at Uni (as well as working full time) with a view to looking at a further promotion in 12-18 months time. I feel no shame at all in the fact that I am doing this so I can afford to send my DS private and give him the best education that I can afford.

The vast majority of organisations I have worked for, have CEO's, Directors and Accountants who have all been educated privately. If I can give my child the foundations he may need to be able to be one of these people in the future and have a great career, then I hold my hands up and say 'Guilty as charged'.

All the other stuff about lots of extra-curricular activities etc are a bonus.

Wealthy, horrible and nasty - I am none of those things. I have just worked my back-side off to get where I have got in my career. I don't see what is so wrong with me then using my hard eared money sending my DS private. If I also thought for one minute that he was becoming 'entitled' he would get my working class boots up his back-side.

To extend my previous post- the person who suggested private school parents (is that really a thing? Really though?) don't want their kids to mix with working class kids, I am from a massive working class family, it has played absolutely no part in our school choice.

Sometimes people have shit options and the best option they have is a private school.

People get themselves bang at it when it comes to private vs state. It's not a big deal.

DD will go private from reception. It is my choice. I was inner city state educated and went to Oxbridge, I know what can be done if you work bloody hard. So eyes, bright kids will achieve well wherever they study. But they will also not fit in for being "swots" or whatever.

I also know what it feels like to slog at studies and not be quite at the level of my university peers simply because my school didn't have the time nor resources to teach me beyond their own level of excellence. I recall on day 1, fellow freshers discussing the existentialism of Sartre and I'd never heard of him let alone read his works let alone heard of existentialism. They had studied him as an aside at A level in prep for uni while I was plodding along with Camus as the bottom of the class tried to keep up. It was another ball game, and I must add I was taught by PASSIONATE teachers who really supported me and cared as much as their time could allow. It isn't possible to always enable people to excel when you have a class of 30!

We live in a country where a chasm does exist in some areas (my corner of London especially) between state and private... Me symbolically throwing DD into a shit hole of a state school (we don't have the good ones near us) will not change that and will not help her at all.

It fecking infuriates me that charity money is available to fund the education of exactly the children who do best in the state sector, while the children to whom small class sizes and lots of individual support might make the difference between a life on benefits and a life at work are disregarded when it comes to providing assistance.

Why on god's earth should intelligent and well supported children be considered more deserving of largesse when it comes to assisted places, than children who are less intelligent and less well supported? Surely it should be the other way around? Private schools are fecking charities surely?

"I don't see what is so wrong with me then using my hard earned money sending my DS private."

What's wrong with having a two tier education system is that it disadvantages the MAJORITY of children. It shouldn't be about parents - deserving or undeserving of their money. It is about CHILDREN, who are all deserving of equality of opportunity, regardless of how 'hard working' their parents are.

Of course you are going to support a system that gives your child an unfair advantage. Equality of opportunity is only considered important by parents when their child is the one being disadvantaged by the system or by the choices other people make.

"I recall on day 1, fellow freshers discussing the existentialism of Sartre and I'd never heard of him let alone read his works let alone heard of existentialism."

Where is pseud's corner when you need it?

Sorry kablooger but I don't think the social thing is a HUGE factor. My 3 dc's are all at private schools and never once have I thought "phew they're not mixing with a lower social class". Most of my private school parent friends are concerned about quite the opposite (their children mixing with too many rich kids).

Future career success was nowhere on the radar for us when we chose private. Our reasons in order of importance:

1. Quality of teaching (great teachers who aren't overworked)
2. Specialist teaching for music, sport, drama etc...
3. Small class sizes
4. Extra-curricular options to suit all children
5. Secondary school transfer process that works and is as stress free for children as possible

We couldn't get any of these things at our local state schools.

"People get themselves bang at it when it comes to private vs state. It's not a big deal"

It is a massive deal.

If children are being treated unfairly and it affects their life chances then it's a massive deal for all of us.

Just because your child is the one benefiting from a situation of inequality - doesn't make it right.

Your study in op is australian how relevant is it
I think main thing middle classes do is buy property in catchment of great school
I know we did

I'm not motivated mainly by 'investing in my kid's future' - I just don't want to spend the next 3 years fretting that DD won't get a primary school place at all (100 kids in the next borough without one currently) or will get offered something unsuitable at the last minute/we won't be able to secure wrap around care. I hate the last minute, 'like it or lump it' nature of the current system in the areas with high population growth. I do wonder if private secondary can possibly be worth the eye-watering fees, but I can see why people do it if they can afford it - the facilities are amazing. There are probably worse things to spend money on .

In my experience of being a privately schooled child, children don't know they are given privileges or feel that they have been singled out from the herd. Their 'herd' is other private school children just like them, so they feel exactly the same as their peers. All children can be made to feel important to parents who care about them, and every child can and should be made to feel important to their school.

Yes.

I think this apparent feeling of superiority that private school children are supposed to have is something that is made up by people who aren't happy with their own choices, and I completely disagree that it happens as standard.

I agree.

Its bonkers. And Blinkered.

Um mini my DS isn't in private school nor will he be. Neither will our future dc.

We could potentially if we scrimped and saved manage to send 1 but not the other which wouldn't be fair. DS will go to our local school which is slap bang in the middle of a rural farming community. If, however, shows signs that he is struggling or being bullied or needs additional support, then hell yeah we'll find the money.

I went to a state school and struggled massively. I was lucky in that I had a specific goal I was working towards. My friends though grew up in households who didn't give a shit about getting qualifications. They scrapped a few GCSEs and a tiny minority went on to a-levels. I honestly think done people have an idealised view of comp schools and only look at the good ones and assume all are like that.

I suppose you could argue that the merit of assisted places/bursaries for bright children from poor families is that they are more likely to achieve their potential, earn a lot and thus pay a lot of tax. From an economic point of view, it doesn't make sense to divert the majority of the resources to the least able.

At our private school there are no posh parents. None that I've encountered anyway. It's just a lovely school filled with normal children and normal parents (well as normal as you get - no one is ever completely normal!). We just try to do the best we can for our children. Doesn't everyone want the best for their child? My child has friends at private and state schools. We are not in the slightest bit posh or overly wealthy.

Minifingers- calm down. Read my posts. My kid didn't get into any local state schools. What would you suggest I do?