Beavers, scouts, Church and finding a place to live...

[AcademicOwl]

Ok... slightly random question... We're looking to re-locate (can't afford to buy/rent any more in the area we live in) and went down to a rural bit of Devon (lived in Plymouth for 8 years, so know the area well) last weekend.

Thought it would be good to take DS (age 4) and DD (18m) to church (CofE) - we go fairly regularly here and although I'm an atheist who lost their faith, I like to think I'm open to being on a spiritual journey - and think it's important that children grow up understanding faith even if they don't choose it in the long run.

So, having a coffee afterwards and chatting to lots of lovely welcoming people. They mentioned the beavers & scouts and how wonderful they get so many in church on parade-day...
"yes" says one lady "they have to come to church or they're out. That's the rule."
"Really?" me, aghast.
"Yes, we give up a lot of our free time to run it, so they can at least come for that service. It's only last year that they stopped promising to do their duty to God, you know".
Carried on in same vein. Turns out that "they" are also "out" if they misbehave ("teachers have to put up with that stuff, but we don't).

I did gently challenge; but as there's no other obvious faith groups locally, apparently enforced presence at a church service is ok for all. As the beaver & scouts leaders pointed out, it's a civil service (remembrance day) and serving members of the armed forces go along.

You might ask, what is my problem; I was at church anyway... but it's the enforced approach of exclusion unless you submit to going to church. If that approach really worked then the church would have been heaving with tiny people (it wasn't and apparently Sunday school is lucky to get 2 or 3 children).

It's put me off moving to such a seemingly intolerant community; esp if I'd like DS to be involved in local beavers & scouts, etc. Plus, he's in early stages of being diagnosed with something autistic spectrum/ADHD/??? so he can be very disruptive and I'd hate to think that he'd be excluded. I'm fairly certain that wouldn't happen here (I know the local leader and he's always fab with DS).

Can anyone put my mind at rest? Or am I just a wishy-washy Guardian reader?

[myotherusernameisbetter]

What I don't get is why don't people who want to be involved in a Christian based youth group form a branch of Boys or Girls brigaid instead which are very much Christian church affiliated groups rather than Scouts/Guides?

I personally don't think religious worship has any place in school or other secular organisations.

[Pantah630]

Bizarre, our District asked for two representatives from each pack for Remembrance Day Parade as we struggle to fit them all in the local Priory along with ex servicemen, other organisations, etc.. Therefore we ask for volunteers, no one is forced to attend. St Georges Day is different and we'd love for full attendance but we never have it, lots of families have other commitments so generally we have half to three quarter attendance, again nothing enforced.

I've yet to exclude or even suspend any Cubs for bad behaviour despite plenty of challenging behaviour from a couple. We speak to ours and their parents as necessary but thankfully have never needed to ask anyone not to come back. You can't expect a group of 30+ 8-11 year olds not to want to let off steam now and again, ridiculous. If what you say is true OP, I'd look for a different pack, they certainly aren't following POR.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

It's two parades a year where I am, they still promise to love their god in beavers. I think it's a good thing, it's a small part of understanding religion delivered quite gently. As for behaviour and attendance, bloody right they are not teachers, they don't have to put up with crap from kids that often are rude and badly behaved at school, and to be honest boys that are a nightmare in the playground and hell to have round to play, behave at beavers. Boisterous good spirits are fine in our group but rudeness, bullying etc are not tolerated.
There is also a waiting list for our troop! You are lucky to be able to get a place immediately.
If you don't like it send ds to football after school instead!

[Oblomov]

Sorry OP but I can't believe you're even quibbling about this.
Ds1 is Aspergers and the Cub Leader is fantastic. One oarsde ire year? Oh purlease. And I too wound expect good behaviour. And that why I send him. And he adores it.

[myotherusernameisbetter]

I think packs really do differ a lot in their expectations and rules etc.

Mine are now at Explorer and last year in Scouts level having both attended since they were 5 and 3 quarters. They have changed from group to another when in Cubs as I wasn't happy with the Cubs they were at - the leader, while completely dedicated and hard working didn't really have a handle on the group, the boys were running riot and we had a parent Rota to help which sort of worked but often meant that younger siblings had to be brought along which at times made it worse. On one occaision on a trip to the park, my very quiet son was brutally punched by a random older child in the park - I felt there were safety issues, I spoke to the district leader about it but moved my son anyway as he had a friend at another troup.

My two have attended every Rememberance Service (which takes place at the memorial) but last week was the first "request" to attend a general church service that we have had. I hope it is the last.

On the other hand, I have noticed all sorts of differences. One Pack seems to only organise 1 camp a year which is in dorms, ours have them camping out in tents 4-5 times a year including a january camp out. Ours allows them to bring along knives to specified evenings when younger and to all camps and as Senior scouts they carry them to everything. Most other packs we have come across don't allow knives at all. I guess it is up to the leaders to set what activities and allowances they feel comfortable with given the attendees.

I have only known one boy expelled and he did thoroughly deserve it and he was given lots of opportunities, including having his mother attend. I had spoken to the leader about it at length as the boy was a neighbour of ours and was giving my younger son a hard time in the street and was carrying that into Cubs. His view which I was happy to support was that he would like to try to keep him in Cubs on the basis that they could maybe help to turn his behaviour around. Given that the police were a regular feature in this boys life, I think he had his work cut out. My son was slightly order so had moved on to Scouts by the time that so many parents had put in complaints and were intending to withdraw their children that he had no option but to tell him not to come back. It really was a last resort.