To not understand how some people afford to have so many children?

[KiKiFrance]

I mean this as a genuine question, but how the heck do they do it?

We have 3 DCs as that was all we could afford, yet I know families that have only one very average income that just seem to keep having children, and affording nice things, activities and holidays too.

Someone I know has just had her fifth baby. They are very early thirties and her DH works in a supermarket, and she is a SAHM, so obviously not on a high income, yet they always have nice clothes, the older children to lots of activities, they have a lovely new build house which is decorated beautifully, always eat out, and they bought all new (expensive) baby equipment for baby #5. She has also said to me that they'll have a sixth baby at some point, and possibly a seventh too!

The other person that I know has 4 children. Her DH is a chef but is always in and out of work, but again they seem to have such nice things, and her children to lots of activities and clubs. One of her sons has just had a huge birthday disco in a hall, and she said it cost over £300. They too are planning to have more children.

Our income is good, yet we generally can't afford half the things that they can, and certainly could never have afforded a 4th child, even though I would have quite liked another baby.

[usualnamechanger]

I want to know these people of which of speak of. I need to know about their magical chickens and all that.

[MorphineDreams]

£337 per week thankyou for being honest and giving figures ilovechristmas is interesting

[Morloth]

I wonder the same thing about where I live.

DH and I make lots of money, we are very fortunate and when I look at our income on a scale for Australia we are right at the top - not stealth boasting, just pointing out I am not envious.

We have fab lifestyle, really but my neighbours are much 'flasher' than we are. How?

If I believe the income scale thingies how are people affording all this 'extra' stuff? Not to mention the extra kids, usually at private school - we looked at private schools in our area and you are dropping $20k a year per child easily, so 4 kids means $80k a year (post tax income), just on schools.

I really am not envious, I don't see how my life could be better, but I just wonder how it works.

We can't figure it out.

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

Interesting Morloth, I would love to know some more figs...(ultra nosey!!)

the only people I know who can truely afford an ultra flash lifestyle are friends who are married to bankers.

but they are really high up successful.

even people who are millionaires but under 10 mill, dont go crazy....save up, wait for things, dont live in massive mansions...etc...

maybe you save and wait and they just go for credit? or rich family wealth on top of their own earnings?

[Morloth]

DH is a Banker, I am in Mining.

Our joint gross incomes exceed $300k.

And yet, we don't live in the most expensive part of our City, we don't drive a flash car etc. But other people do.

I guess we could but to do so would mean we were spending more than we earn so it wouldn't be sustainable.

People do sustain it though - HOW?!

[melissa83]

On 30k we have a mortgage, 3 children, save money for he dcs (even 50 quid each per dc means 10k at 18 and 50 quid is nothing to miss a month each). My dd gets private tuition and goes to drama school. We had 4 holidays in last year of which 2 were abroad. Dh drives a decent make car as hes really into cars etc. If you dont have debt, got a mortgage early on in life, space your children out a bit and are good at bargain hunting its do able.

[merrymouse]

The thing is, assuming you have to provide your own housing and don't have family support, most households, at least in the South East, would be worrying about having one child with a total income of £30-£40K - never mind 5.

[melissa83]

I live in south but afforded my own mortgage at 18 then sold at 21 when I was married then bought another place so my mortgage is cheaper than if you bought late such as in 2006 as for a start you have had years to pay it down and it was a lot cheaper. It makes a massive difference.

[coldwater1]

I don't know why people are so concerned about other families, spend your energy concentrating on your own family rather than worrying how others afford x, y or z. If you don't like your situation change it.

[Morloth]

But how can you change it if you don't know how they are doing it? Change your situation how? I don't even want to change, I just wonder how it is done.

I am not 'worrying' about it, but there is must have been a memo I missed as to how in Sydney the average salary is $60k(ish) a year and the average house price is something like $750k(ish) a year - does not compute.

[dancestomyowntune]

i think the point about mortgages is a valid one. ours is £360 a month. dds friends mum was telling me hers is over £1000 a month! her home is slightly bigger than ours but even so!

also we all have different priorities.

[Glasshammer]

We have 4 and a total income of 40k. Thankfully don't live in London. We have a large mortgage (for us), lots of building work underway and have no financial or physical help what so ever from family.

All clothes and furniture are secondhand/hand me downs, we have cheap or free fun/holidays and cars are old. Kids do some limited paid activities and we eat well. We have no debt apart from the mortgage but have to be very careful as there is no one to help us out if we desperate.

My good friends on the same wage have 4 boys too. They have new clothes, are members of lots of clubs and generally have the best technology/cars/have a smaller mortgage. They have lots of physical and financial family help but also struggle to control their spending and are always in debt/being helped out.

[Olbas]

I am expecting our 6th. No tax credits, no family allowance, no other benefits. Do you know how we do it... sheer good fortune, right place, right time and a husband with a brilliant mind. As for making chickens last for 3 meals, yeah I can do that but I buy a bloody big chicken (capon) in the first place Hasn't always been like this though.

[redshifter]

Another factual (not Daily Fail BS) example. Make of it what you will.

My DNiece, has 4 DCs, lives in a fairly nice 4 bed house in London, front and back gardens for DC to play in. She is a SAHM, her partner works 25 hrs a week in a local supermarket for £7 per hour..
He earns £175 per week, not liable for income tax but pays £2-3 per week in NI.
Her rent is £430 per week.
When she fell pregnant with twins she was very worried how they would cope but was surprised at the help they received. I asked her how on earth did she manage. So she gave me a breakdown.

Partners wage = £175
CTaxC = £222
WTC = £54
CB = 61

Total weekly income = £512 (£26, 600 p/a) tax free.

They pay £33 p/w towards their £430 p/w rent and £7 p/w towards their council tax.

Annually they receive £17, 500 in tax credits and child benefit + £21, 500 in HB and council tax support.

That is £39, 000 in benefits, plus £9000 in wages.

Benefit cap doesn't apply if you are in work.

In some circumstances it is possible to have an ok lifestyle with more DC.

A lot of people used to choose whether to have a big family they wanted but live in cramped housing and struggle financially or have just one or two DC so they could have a nice house and enjoy luxuries like a nice car, holidays, meals out activities etc.
A lot of younger people today can't see themselves ever getting a decent job or owning their own home but they have found a different option. Not a fantastic lifestyle with a comfortable future but sometimes a lot better than any alternatives.

I mean you both work long hours for low pay, have only one child, struggle with high rent and childcare costs, have limited family time and be too exhausted and stressed to enjoy it.
Or you could have 4 lovely DC, have a SAHP, have time and energy to enjoy your family. By working part time as a shelf stacker, with a tax free income of nearly £27000, with 90% of your rent and council tax paid.

I can't really blame people for making this choice in these circumstances.

[nicename]

Our parents constantly told us to 'cut our cloth' and pay our own way. If you can't afford it, you don't have it.

When my grandfather had to retire early because of bad health, he stubbornly refused to claim state pension because he 'hadn't earned it' at 55 years of age. It would have been shameful to him to get money from the state.

Is the country in such a financial mess that families just can't afford to live?

[fun1nthesun]

Budgeting food, buying clothes in sales, being careful with every penny probably. They might be living on credit, they might talk about what they do do and not what they don't!

There are lots of free sites as well so maybe they haven't bought their furniture but got it free?

They sound as if they are spending their money on the children not themselves, so what is the problem?

[weatherall]

I've worked out that if/when we have a 3rd we would get an extra £3k pa. I didn't think it'd be so much tbh.

A baby wouldn't cost that but I know that an older child would.

I'd rather a system where there weren't tax credits but free childcare for all.

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

Morloth Wed 06-Aug-14 05:30:53


people also pull money out of their homes...take on loans....maybe your own perception of your wealth is tainted...ie you have more to spend than you think but you are afraid too?

I know very successful corporate person who still thinks she is very poor....

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

There are lots of free sites as well so maybe they haven't bought their furniture but got it free?


People have said our home looks like magazine, or that we have nice furniture...most of it was free yes.

[timeforanappychange]

People have said our home looks like magazine, or that we have nice furniture...most of it was free yes

Most of the stuff in our house was either free or very cheap. I buy a lot of things from Facebook groups (eg most of the children's clothes) and most of our furniture. Even if it's 'just' something I like from Ikea, I normally look around and wait until somebody is selling the same thing somewhere in our city. It works out MUCH cheaper.

I wasn't meaning to offend by mentioning earlier that some people might be living on credit. I don't mean that everyone is! We probably look like we are doing much much better than we actually are, but we don't have any debts. We just spend on certain things but not others. I am a freelancer and when there's lots of work I stock up on things that we need (eg clothes/shoes, as like it or not we all need something to wear). When business is slow then I make do with what I've got, which is usually just fine as I have bought things I needed when I had more money and could get them in the sales etc.

DD has a Petit Bateau raincoat, perhaps people see things like that and think woah, how can they afford that? But I bought it for a tenner from a Facebook group. It has already been worn by the seller's 3 children but is in excellent condition. If anyone commented on it (eg 'that's a nice coat') I would be excited to tell them how cheaply I got it for, so it's not like I hide the fact.

We are also given pricey clothes and toys for the children by relatives, I come from a fairly well-off family and they are also fairly generous and extravagant in their gifts.

I try to prioritise things like swimming and dance lessons for the children, I don't consider dance lessons essential (far from it!) but I am happy to not have dinners out etc if it means that the kids can do things like that. But that's not a value judgement. Some parents need to do certain things to stay sane, I am a bit of a homebody so a night in with a really good library book is my idea of a good time

We also do things like going to children's theatre shows in the holidays, for which I look for free performances or hunt down vouchers for discounted tickets. It's amazing what you can find online.

Somehow with a combination of good management and good luck we seem to get by. Am certainly hoping for an economic upturn though.

[timeforanappychange]

soverylucky I do find some of it a bit odd. I don't live in the UK so I'm not sure exactly how it works there. Where I live, continental Europe, we are lucky enough to get a small amount of what I guess would be 'tax credits'. It doesn't increase when you have another child, just like my wages didn't go up when I had another child. I think (though I'm not sure) there's a difference between how much you get if you have children and if you don't have children, but other than that there's not much in it. If certain UK benefits do increase by quite a lot with each subsequent child (I have no idea if that's true and I don't want to start a bunfight, esp. since I'm not a UK resident or taxpayer so it's not like I have any sort of personal interest in this) then it does seem a bit strange to me.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

We have 3dc and I am a SAHM. We don't get TC or CB. We have just bought our first house, so have expensive mortgage for an ex-local authority house. I often wonder how other people manage to have more kids. We definitely couldn't afford any more. We do not live extravagantly either. If we'd bought a house a 20 years, we'd be significantly better off than we are now. I think a lot boils down to when you bought your house.

[Laquitar]

'...and a husband with a brilliant brain'.

Olbas #

i wish you can tell us more. I am dying to know.