Am I a noisy neighbour or am I being harassed?

[QuietlyCurious92]

Heya, so a little advice here would be greatly appreciated (and the honest truth more so, I won't take offence!)

A couple months ago I moved into a four in a block top floor flat, lovely area and all my neighbours seemed great. Got along well with my downstairs neighbours as much as an introvert who suffers panic attacks and anxiety can and they were really lovely and welcoming. However after a couple of weeks I received a visit from the social work, my downstairs neighbours had complained of my children (2 and 4) being in my garden (enclosed, safe and well away from any main roads) unsupervised. This happened twice early in the morning as the medication the doctor gave me was making it near impossible for me to wake up. I hadn't known about this but the social worker said she had no concerns and helped me get a chain on the door so the children couldn't get out, I went back to the doctor and had the medication changed and everything was fine. Another complaint was submitted to the social work, a report of a strange man coming in and out of my house. This happened to be my partner, we don't live together though he visits often. They also complained of the children looking out the windows a lot. Social work asked about the man for child safety reasons but other than that had absolutely no concerns. About a week after that they stopped my partner as he was leaving my home and threatened to damage his car if he parked in front of the house in "their" space again (on road, no designated parking spots) and of him leaving the gates open. My partner apologised, explained he hadn't realised it was their spot but told them if any damage happened to his car he would get the police involved. Everything once again returned to normal. The week after they complained to the council that my bins weren't being emptied. The council came out the same day and checked the bins, saw they were fine and informed me of what happened. I asked their advice on the current situation and was told someone would phone me but u received no call. A few days after this had happened the male came to my door and asked to talk to me. I was happy to talk and invited him in but he declined and told my my children running around and playing inside was causing them a lot of noise disturbance. I apologised several times and was mortified, I had no intention of causing them any disruptions. I promised him I would immediately lower the noise levels and I was again incredibly sorry. This seemed to put everything back on track, the kids were stopped running around in the house as much as possible, I keep the TV at a volume so low you can't hear it, I took the battery's out of any noisy toys and gave constantly kept the noise as low as I can with having two young children. A few days later I asked if the noise had been any better and he had said yes, I apologised once again and everything seemed fine. Until two weeks after that when my daughter woke at 6 am and went to the toilet, at 6.15 there was a banging on the door and the male was there, nearly shouting about how my children had just woke everyone in their house and it wasn't acceptable, there was noise coming from my house all day every day and someone racing back and forth across the floor until 11th at night. I tried to apologise if we had caused a disturbance and tried to suggest that maybe all the noise wasn't coming from my house as I was keeping things as quiet as possible and the children were in bed by 7.30. At this point my son woke upset and came down the stairs trailed by my still half asleep daughter and the new kitten. He pointed at the kitten and half shouted how that must be making all the noise. I explained that he was tiny and made next to no noise at all, perhaps it wasn't us, apologised again to have him shout it wasn't good enough and storm off. The children were upset and I started having a severe panic attack which led to them starting every time I hear noise in my house. A couple of days after this happened me and the kids were playing in my garden when he opened the gate and let his daughter (a couple years older than my daughter) in to play with the kids like nothing had happened. My mum then came to stay for a week with my younger brother and sister, the noise was quite a bit louder but I received no complaints. However today (two days after my mum having left) the male came to my door at 2.30 pm while me and my children were sitting on Skype to their father. He straight away went 'do you know what's going on in your house?' I was rather confused and asked him what he meant, and he started going on about my children banging on the floor for the past hour. I told him it definitely was not my kids as they were on Skype and my daughter had only ran to her room once to get a teddy to show her dad, other than that they hadn't left the sofa. He continued going on about how there was constantly noise coming from my house and if it didn't stop he would seek mediation, he'd been nothing but nice to me by cutting my grass and his wife looking after my children by sending them back inside when I first moved in and how their life had been unbearable since I moved in and I let my children run riot and I didn't look after him. I tried to tell him I was keeping things quiet as I could and that it wasn't them banging today but he kept cutting me off. I then told him that he was causing me to have a panic attack by being so aggressive and he replied that it wasn't his problem, that he went out of his way to help his neighbours and I made absolutely no effort. After that he stormed off. I phoned the antisocial behaviour team and put in a complaint but I'm not sure if it is my fault and if I really am being too noisy.

My children are two and four, my son (2) does run a lot and even being reminded constantly to walk nicely he forgets. My daughter does run sometimes but for the most part she's been good about walking. She does however throw a lot of tantrums, she's very strong willed and objects being told what to do. I'm the first person to admit my children are noisy sometimes, they're loud and they can be boisterous. However they do get in trouble for this and I make an effort constantly to keep them quiet. I walk around as quiet as I can myself and make as little noise as possible after the kids are in bed. I don't have parties, don't drink or play loud music/tv and I keep to myself as much as possible. However I will say that I don't have any problems with my other neighbours, they are all very lovely and welcoming.

So is it just me? Am I a bad neighbour? If I am, I'd honestly like to be told, I don't mean to cause anyone problems. Also, any really good ways to stop kids making so much noise in a flat? I don't think there is much soundproofing here ??

[IHeartKingThistle]

But it IS really hard to read with so few paragraphs!

[arkestra]

My snipe was more aimed at the ones weighing in after the thread had many postings. Which meant it was clear that lots of people had understood OP perfectly well.

But I think anyone whose sole contribution to a thread is carping at the quality of the prose of the OP needs to take a long hard look at themselves and think on whether their ability to interact with others on the Internet is closer to the Dunning-Kruger zone than they realise.

(To save a Google, the "Dunning-Kruger effect" refers to the tendency of those in the bottom 25% of performance at any given activity to think they are actually in the top 25% at said activity - because they can't tell how bad they are)

[rowna]

I think it's a difficult situation in that you have two young dc and you live in an upstairs flat. They're bound to get more noise than if the flat was occupied by a single person who went out to work all day.

All you can do is try to keep the noise down as much as you can, which is what you've done. All dc are noisy, particularly at age 2 and 4.

I think you did the right thing phoning the antisocial behaviour team. We had a neighbour who was always complaining to us when we first moved here. It was for bizarre things like could we not park anywhere in the street, could we not hang washing on our washing line in the back garden. I tried to be nice but in the end the only thing that stopped her was standing up to her.

Nobody makes no noise at all. I think he's being very unfair on you.

[IHeartKingThistle]

Coola I teach adult literacy too. I still think the OP should have used more paragraphs - why wouldn't I? I don't think pointing that out has to be sneery though.

[arkestra]

Eg if you are helpful and also comment on the prose then maybe that's ok. But if all you do is slag the prose off then you look like that's all you can get into your head and you can't read the message.

[WalkWithTheLonelyOnes]

If you can't read a small piece of text without paragraphs then that's your own issue.

Jesus people just posting to point out no paragraphs. Get. A. Grip.

[sconequeen]

I had a similar (though not so severe) problem with our next door neighbour who came to the door shouting about the noise of my children playing and thumped on the party wall yelling obscenities. We live in semi-detached, owner-occupied houses and though I do not think my children are abnormally noisy I always try to be as considerate as possible as the party wall is not the best, despite us having spent a lot of money on soundproofing measures on our side. Strangely, NDN only ever complained when he knew I was in on my own. (DH works abroad a lot.)

After two encounters which I found very intimidating, I wrote to NDN (recorded delivery) telling him that I considered his behaviour to be unreasonable and aggressive, that he was not to come to my door complaining again, that he was not to shout at us through the wall or in any other way, and that he was to direct all future complaints to environmental health or the police. In addition, I said that I was keeping a log of his contact with us, and of the noise we hear from his house (noise travels two ways often), which I would show environmental health or the police if they came to see me.

I also made it clear in the letter that, from that point on, I would not engage with him or let any future aggressive behaviour go unreported. If he had come to my door again, I would not have answered it. If he had shouted through the wall or thumped it, I would have called the police. There have been no further problems since I sent the letter (touch wood).

This approach seems to have worked for me. If you are in a Council/Housing Association flat, perhaps you could ask the Council/Housing Association to take action on your behalf rather than you taking action direct (especially as you have anxiety problems). However, I think the main thing is that you shouldn't pander to this bully by apologising and (literally) tiptoeing around him. Being excessively noisy is not fair but it does not sound as if you and your children are being excessively noisy, and you all have the right to live normally in your own home. I would add in times and dates, if you can, to your original post and then use this as the basis for an ongoing record of how your neighbour is harassing you.

Hope there are enough paragraphs in this for those who have been having problems with their reading...

[thegreylady]

How can some patronising idiots bang on about paragraphs when this poor woman is being bullied by a prattish neighbour.
She doesn't need more bullying by pathetic people who get a kick out of sneering. You are as bad as the neighbour. If you can't read it, don't read it.
OP you have been more than reasonable. Try to avoid engaging with this man but keep a log of every comment and complaint with your response. Show the log to the council if you have more trouble.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Poor you, it does sound like harassment.

Make notes, wrote down exact wordings if you can, by taking notes as soon as you've got the door closed.

I hope you're ok, sounds horrible to deal with

[differentnameforthis]

MrsCumbersnatch I think that says more about your ability to read than what is written. I, and several others, have managed to read it just fine.

Funny how they didn't complain when you had your family over Exactly, trying to intimidate you & doing it while you are vulnerable & by yourself.

As pp said, a complete bully!

[differentnameforthis]

Don't get personal and nasty Yet you are allowed to be rude about ops posting style? Lots of pps, myself inc managed to read it.

Perhaps you need to try a bit harder, or close the thread. Your comment isn't necessary to the thread.

[coolaschmoola]

IHeartKingThistle I completely agree that more paragraphs would have made it easier to read, but the way in which the op was addressed by some posters was vile.

If people desperately felt the need to raise an issue with the op's use of paragraphs they could have found a less patronising and rude way to do so.

[IHeartKingThistle]

True

[Nanny0gg]

If people desperately felt the need to raise an issue with the op's use of paragraphs they could have found a less patronising and rude way to do so.

Or they could have just moved on to another thread written in their preferred posting style...

How many of you, in RL, speak to people who perhaps use poor grammar? Do you correct them? No. Thought not.

[Deathraystare]

It is unfortunate you are in the top flat. If you were on the bottom, it would be another story!!! It is very quiet where I am living at the moment though I do hear the bloke above me pretending to be a tenor (opera singer) and he is a bit heavy on his feet. However, I bet he hears my snores too!

This sounds a real problem. Unfortunately your kids are at the worst age for stamping/running around/making noise. You have to accept a certain amount of noise in a garden. My mum used to love hearing the kids next door playing (after years of no one living there).

My brother's next door neighbour apologised for the noise of their very young baby which amused my brother and he said so because his family practise their music in their conservatory and of course having 2 teenagers -there are probably noisy moments!

Having said that I hate constant stamping over head.

Gee I hope there are enough paragraphs on here....

I also wonder if he has formed an opinion of you ..partner not living with you (the strange male that comes in -what the fuck is it to do with him?), your anxiety -to him reads mental illness ..He has definately labelled you all right.

I don't know what to suggest really but you have had good advice from others on here. My sympathies to you.

[Sazzle41]

When you had support (your visitors) he didnt try it on. Refuse to engage, dont answer the door and if he pounces on you on the stairs or path, ignore, ignore, ignore. If you dont you fuel his unreasonable behaviour. Log every visit and/or incident/nasty note. Constantly apologising & engagning is like NewtRipley says, giving him power and the message his complaints have substance. Good idea with the rugs and prop doors open unless its winter and freezing to lessen slamming (small children dont get closing doors quietly).

[edamsavestheday]

He's harassing you. Keep on at the police/council, he needs putting in his place VERY firmly.

[NewtRipley]

Christ on a bike. What a fuss about paragraphs.

[NewtRipley]

So what if it was gard to read. You still read it. Way to miss the point

[QuietlyCurious92]

Thanks again everyone for your comments and support, you've all been lovely tbh I kinda expected to be told I was being unreasonable and noisy, I know young children aren't the best in flats.

And for everyone commenting about my paragraphs, sorry it was so difficult to read but when I'm upset my writing goes out the window. You're just lucky there was punctuation and the sorts in there!

[Nancy66]

If you have people living above you then it IS always noisy. I've lived in ground floor properties and it's a nightmare, even somebody just shutting a door or moving from room to room can disturb you. You can hear their loo flush, their phone ring and sometimes their TV sounds louder than yours.

BUT....that's the way it is. You sound considerate and you can't be expected to tiptoe around in your own home.

Your neighbour is just going to have to suck it up.