Am I a noisy neighbour or am I being harassed?

[QuietlyCurious92]

Heya, so a little advice here would be greatly appreciated (and the honest truth more so, I won't take offence!)

A couple months ago I moved into a four in a block top floor flat, lovely area and all my neighbours seemed great. Got along well with my downstairs neighbours as much as an introvert who suffers panic attacks and anxiety can and they were really lovely and welcoming. However after a couple of weeks I received a visit from the social work, my downstairs neighbours had complained of my children (2 and 4) being in my garden (enclosed, safe and well away from any main roads) unsupervised. This happened twice early in the morning as the medication the doctor gave me was making it near impossible for me to wake up. I hadn't known about this but the social worker said she had no concerns and helped me get a chain on the door so the children couldn't get out, I went back to the doctor and had the medication changed and everything was fine. Another complaint was submitted to the social work, a report of a strange man coming in and out of my house. This happened to be my partner, we don't live together though he visits often. They also complained of the children looking out the windows a lot. Social work asked about the man for child safety reasons but other than that had absolutely no concerns. About a week after that they stopped my partner as he was leaving my home and threatened to damage his car if he parked in front of the house in "their" space again (on road, no designated parking spots) and of him leaving the gates open. My partner apologised, explained he hadn't realised it was their spot but told them if any damage happened to his car he would get the police involved. Everything once again returned to normal. The week after they complained to the council that my bins weren't being emptied. The council came out the same day and checked the bins, saw they were fine and informed me of what happened. I asked their advice on the current situation and was told someone would phone me but u received no call. A few days after this had happened the male came to my door and asked to talk to me. I was happy to talk and invited him in but he declined and told my my children running around and playing inside was causing them a lot of noise disturbance. I apologised several times and was mortified, I had no intention of causing them any disruptions. I promised him I would immediately lower the noise levels and I was again incredibly sorry. This seemed to put everything back on track, the kids were stopped running around in the house as much as possible, I keep the TV at a volume so low you can't hear it, I took the battery's out of any noisy toys and gave constantly kept the noise as low as I can with having two young children. A few days later I asked if the noise had been any better and he had said yes, I apologised once again and everything seemed fine. Until two weeks after that when my daughter woke at 6 am and went to the toilet, at 6.15 there was a banging on the door and the male was there, nearly shouting about how my children had just woke everyone in their house and it wasn't acceptable, there was noise coming from my house all day every day and someone racing back and forth across the floor until 11th at night. I tried to apologise if we had caused a disturbance and tried to suggest that maybe all the noise wasn't coming from my house as I was keeping things as quiet as possible and the children were in bed by 7.30. At this point my son woke upset and came down the stairs trailed by my still half asleep daughter and the new kitten. He pointed at the kitten and half shouted how that must be making all the noise. I explained that he was tiny and made next to no noise at all, perhaps it wasn't us, apologised again to have him shout it wasn't good enough and storm off. The children were upset and I started having a severe panic attack which led to them starting every time I hear noise in my house. A couple of days after this happened me and the kids were playing in my garden when he opened the gate and let his daughter (a couple years older than my daughter) in to play with the kids like nothing had happened. My mum then came to stay for a week with my younger brother and sister, the noise was quite a bit louder but I received no complaints. However today (two days after my mum having left) the male came to my door at 2.30 pm while me and my children were sitting on Skype to their father. He straight away went 'do you know what's going on in your house?' I was rather confused and asked him what he meant, and he started going on about my children banging on the floor for the past hour. I told him it definitely was not my kids as they were on Skype and my daughter had only ran to her room once to get a teddy to show her dad, other than that they hadn't left the sofa. He continued going on about how there was constantly noise coming from my house and if it didn't stop he would seek mediation, he'd been nothing but nice to me by cutting my grass and his wife looking after my children by sending them back inside when I first moved in and how their life had been unbearable since I moved in and I let my children run riot and I didn't look after him. I tried to tell him I was keeping things quiet as I could and that it wasn't them banging today but he kept cutting me off. I then told him that he was causing me to have a panic attack by being so aggressive and he replied that it wasn't his problem, that he went out of his way to help his neighbours and I made absolutely no effort. After that he stormed off. I phoned the antisocial behaviour team and put in a complaint but I'm not sure if it is my fault and if I really am being too noisy.

My children are two and four, my son (2) does run a lot and even being reminded constantly to walk nicely he forgets. My daughter does run sometimes but for the most part she's been good about walking. She does however throw a lot of tantrums, she's very strong willed and objects being told what to do. I'm the first person to admit my children are noisy sometimes, they're loud and they can be boisterous. However they do get in trouble for this and I make an effort constantly to keep them quiet. I walk around as quiet as I can myself and make as little noise as possible after the kids are in bed. I don't have parties, don't drink or play loud music/tv and I keep to myself as much as possible. However I will say that I don't have any problems with my other neighbours, they are all very lovely and welcoming.

So is it just me? Am I a bad neighbour? If I am, I'd honestly like to be told, I don't mean to cause anyone problems. Also, any really good ways to stop kids making so much noise in a flat? I don't think there is much soundproofing here ??

[ScouseBird8364]

PARAGRAPHS - sorry, not even going to read it now

[Mumof3xox]

It concerns me your dc got out of the house without you knowing.

However your neighbour is clearly harassing you.

I would hate to live in a flat. I imagine my neighbours would hate me a lot

[LastTango]

perhaps try just reading a sentence at a time?

It all blurs into one for me and the lines keep jumping. Paragraphs would help. Couldn't read it.

[hollycomputer]

I'm sorry, but paragraphs. Honestly, OP, it's REALLY hard to read.

[Iggly]

All of you paragraph snobs, WTF. You must be stupid if such things make it difficult for your delicate little heads

[LastTango]

You must be stupid if such things make it difficult for your delicate little heads

I am FAR from stupid Iggly. Neither am I a snob. Don't get personal and nasty.

[DoItTooJulia]

But if you can't read it, why post?

OP, complain to their landlord, the council. Log everything he does. Don't answer the door to him again.

[hollycomputer]

'Paragraph snobs'? Really? Is that because it's wrong to have a grasp of language and how to present a post?

I hate this bollocks about how it's somehow OK to write any old toss and expect everyone to understand it because real feelings and expressing oneself are more important than being able to communicate effectively through writing.

OP, sorry for the sidetrack and the 'any old bollocks' comment doesn't mean you but yes, you should have used paragraphs.

[LastTango]

But if you can't read it, why post?

In the vain hope that next time there MIGHT be paragraphs and we CAN read it DoIt ?

[ScarlettDragon]

Dear god! For all those sensitive souls whining about paragraphs, here;

A couple months ago I moved into a four in a block top floor flat, lovely area and all my neighbours seemed great. Got along well with my downstairs neighbours as much as an introvert who suffers panic attacks and anxiety can and they were really lovely and welcoming.

However after a couple of weeks I received a visit from the social work, my downstairs neighbours had complained of my children (2 and 4) being in my garden (enclosed, safe and well away from any main roads) unsupervised. This happened twice early in the morning as the medication the doctor gave me was making it near impossible for me to wake up. I hadn't known about this but the social worker said she had no concerns and helped me get a chain on the door so the children couldn't get out, I went back to the doctor and had the medication changed and everything was fine.

Another complaint was submitted to the social work, a report of a strange man coming in and out of my house. This happened to be my partner, we don't live together though he visits often. They also complained of the children looking out the windows a lot. Social work asked about the man for child safety reasons but other than that had absolutely no concerns. About a week after that they stopped my partner as he was leaving my home and threatened to damage his car if he parked in front of the house in "their" space again (on road, no designated parking spots) and of him leaving the gates open. My partner apologised, explained he hadn't realised it was their spot but told them if any damage happened to his car he would get the police involved. Everything once again returned to normal.

The week after they complained to the council that my bins weren't being emptied. The council came out the same day and checked the bins, saw they were fine and informed me of what happened. I asked their advice on the current situation and was told someone would phone me but u received no call. A few days after this had happened the male came to my door and asked to talk to me. I was happy to talk and invited him in but he declined and told my my children running around and playing inside was causing them a lot of noise disturbance.

I apologised several times and was mortified, I had no intention of causing them any disruptions. I promised him I would immediately lower the noise levels and I was again incredibly sorry. This seemed to put everything back on track, the kids were stopped running around in the house as much as possible, I keep the TV at a volume so low you can't hear it, I took the battery's out of any noisy toys and gave constantly kept the noise as low as I can with having two young children. A few days later I asked if the noise had been any better and he had said yes, I apologised once again and everything seemed fine.

Until two weeks after that when my daughter woke at 6 am and went to the toilet, at 6.15 there was a banging on the door and the male was there, nearly shouting about how my children had just woke everyone in their house and it wasn't acceptable, there was noise coming from my house all day every day and someone racing back and forth across the floor until 11th at night. I tried to apologise if we had caused a disturbance and tried to suggest that maybe all the noise wasn't coming from my house as I was keeping things as quiet as possible and the children were in bed by 7.30.

At this point my son woke upset and came down the stairs trailed by my still half asleep daughter and the new kitten. He pointed at the kitten and half shouted how that must be making all the noise. I explained that he was tiny and made next to no noise at all, perhaps it wasn't us, apologised again to have him shout it wasn't good enough and storm off. The children were upset and I started having a severe panic attack which led to them starting every time I hear noise in my house.

A couple of days after this happened me and the kids were playing in my garden when he opened the gate and let his daughter (a couple years older than my daughter) in to play with the kids like nothing had happened. My mum then came to stay for a week with my younger brother and sister, the noise was quite a bit louder but I received no complaints.

However today (two days after my mum having left) the male came to my door at 2.30 pm while me and my children were sitting on Skype to their father. He straight away went 'do you know what's going on in your house?' I was rather confused and asked him what he meant, and he started going on about my children banging on the floor for the past hour. I told him it definitely was not my kids as they were on Skype and my daughter had only ran to her room once to get a teddy to show her dad, other than that they hadn't left the sofa.

He continued going on about how there was constantly noise coming from my house and if it didn't stop he would seek mediation, he'd been nothing but nice to me by cutting my grass and his wife looking after my children by sending them back inside when I first moved in and how their life had been unbearable since I moved in and I let my children run riot and I didn't look after him. I tried to tell him I was keeping things quiet as I could and that it wasn't them banging today but he kept cutting me off. I then told him that he was causing me to have a panic attack by being so aggressive and he replied that it wasn't his problem, that he went out of his way to help his neighbours and I made absolutely no effort.

After that he stormed off. I phoned the antisocial behaviour team and put in a complaint but I'm not sure if it is my fault and if I really am being too noisy.

My children are two and four, my son (2) does run a lot and even being reminded constantly to walk nicely he forgets. My daughter does run sometimes but for the most part she's been good about walking. She does however throw a lot of tantrums, she's very strong willed and objects being told what to do. I'm the first person to admit my children are noisy sometimes, they're loud and they can be boisterous.

However they do get in trouble for this and I make an effort constantly to keep them quiet. I walk around as quiet as I can myself and make as little noise as possible after the kids are in bed. I don't have parties, don't drink or play loud music/tv and I keep to myself as much as possible. However I will say that I don't have any problems with my other neighbours, they are all very lovely and welcoming.

So is it just me? Am I a bad neighbour? If I am, I'd honestly like to be told, I don't mean to cause anyone problems. Also, any really good ways to stop kids making so much noise in a flat? I don't think there is much soundproofing here

[DoJo]

I don't think the OP is expecting everyone to read and understand, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that people who couldn't be bothered or found to format off-putting to move on and not post.

OP - might it be worth suggesting that your neighbour call environmental health to monitor your noise in the hope that the council might offer you some extra soundproofing to avoid the situation escalating. If they do it, then environmental health will either tell them that the noise isn't actionable and hopefully they will leave you alone, or they will discover an unacceptable level of noise which will presumably be easily identifiable as a family behaving normally in a flat which is inadequately sound-proofed and their recommendations will be for the council to take measures. If they choose not to speak to EH, then you can suggest it every time they complain and it gives you license to ignore them as they aren't addressing the issue through the proper channels.

Disclaimer - I have no experience of EH and only a limited understanding of how it would work, but it's worth at least investigating, especially if you can speak to EH first and ask for their advice.

[Nanny0gg]

But if you can't read it, why post?

In the vain hope that next time there MIGHT be paragraphs and we CAN read it DoIt ?

But it wouldn't be the end of the world if you didn't, would it?

So surely, all those who can't cope without paragraphs or punctuation or capital letters etc, could just move along without being nasty to the OP.

Very poor netiquette and very unhelpful to the OP who is obviously having a difficult time with horrible neighbours.

QuietlyCurious92 - definitely log this with the council - they are harassing you.

[ApplebyMennym]

There are some real fucking arseholes on this thread, and they aren't the OP. Really, you can't read it? Or is that just a tiny bit of bullshit and you want to make yourselves feel big and important by kicking a person when she's already down.

OP I could read it just fine (I went to school and everything). I think the suggestion upthread of offering to come into the man's flat while your partner/mum is there with the kids so you can check out the noise levels for yourself, is a good one. I think he's being a twat for the sake of it, personally, but if it really is THAT bad then he can't say no to your suggestion. It must be horrid, I'm an anxious person and that would have me right on edge.

[MysteriousCircusZebra]

Perfectly readable to me op.

And your neighbors sound bloody awful. It sounds like harassment to me.

[HumphreyCobbler]

Jesus wept will all you paragraph hunters just bugger off?

It read FINE. If you don't like it, don't post. I can only assume you do it to prove your own superiority. You sound like stupid arseholes. Even if you felt it needed saying (and what kind of tosser would actually think this?) someone said it on the first post, so you didn't need to.

I really should have hidden this topic like I said I was going to.

[coolaschmoola]

But not everyone CAN 'communicate effectively through writing' Holly. Should people who struggle with some areas of literacy not post so that they don't offend you with their lack of communication skills?

Surely that IS a form of snobbery? To judge as you just did is certainly a form of knobbery.

I teach adult literacy. There are a myriad of reasons why people may have difficulty with written communication, many of which come down to lack of opportunity, or lack of support. You clearly don't have literacy issues - well bully for you. It doesn't mean you are entitled to be derogatory to others. It's the fear of encountering snotty attitudes like yours that actively stops individuals seeking help.

OP, your post was perfectly coherent to me.

[Billygoats]

From what you say this seems like normal family behaviour on your part.

Your children shouldn't be made to tiptoe around their home. I can see how your neighbour can get frustrated with noise but it really is part and parcel of living in a flat.

[coolaschmoola]

And just to be clear - I am not in any way suggesting the op has any difficulties with literacy. It's the implication that if you DO then you shouldn't be on MN.

Internet forums are fantastic places for people to practice their written skills. Apart from here apparently. Here only perfect grammar will do.

As for knowing the 'correct way to present a post' - did I miss a handbook? Sanctimonious balderdash with a hefty helping of piffle.

[MonterayJack]

I agree he sounds unreasonable. I live in a 1st floor flat. I'm pretty quiet but the girl in the flat below me has a loud voice. There's sod all insulation so even if people are really quiet, I accept a certain amount of noise is unavoidable.

Don't engage with him. If he knocks on the door, don't answer. Tell him you aren't prepared to enter into further conversations. Log stuff down as others have advised. And if he's threatened to damage your partners car, well then that is more than harrassment. Any further incidents, def call police. You're doing just about all you can to keep noise to minimum. If he wants total quiet then living in a flat isn't going to provide that.

[Aeroflotgirl]

They sound nasty, I definitely would contact the Police, it sounds like harassment

[northlight]

OP, neither the council nor the police will be interested in the normal family noise you and your children make. They will, however, be interested in the bullying and unreasonable behaviour of your neighbour.

Your neighbour believes he is entitled to silence, he is not.

[Jengnr]

Malicious reports to social services, kicking off about parking, reports about bins and now noise? He's a cunt.

I think I'd be ringing 101 first and reporting him then have my partner park in 'his' space as often as possible and probably encourage one (or both) of my kids to take up tap dancing if I were you.

He is complaining when there is no noise so you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. Turn the telly back up to a normal level as well.

[arkestra]

To the OP: am laughing at the paragraph hunters BTW. I didn't even notice the lack of paragraphs when I read your original post; I wish everyone I had to deal with in my professional life could write half as clearly as you.

To the paragraph hunters: may I suggest that you try to stretch your reading skills? None of us found reading easy to start with, but it will get easier with practice, I promise. Try an internet etiquette guide once you've gained a bit of confidence: there's clearly some catching up necessary there. Soon you will be able to engage with the meaning of posts with surprisingly little effort.

[StillStayingClassySanDiego]

Paragraphs do help when posting, it's easier to read.

Just a fact, no need to bitch at MrsCumberbatch

[coolaschmoola]

There are ways to say things, fact or not, there is no need for rudeness, supercilious tones or downright patronising comments.

All of these are worse than a missing paragraph.

Incidentally the op did use paragraphs in her post, maybe she could have used more, but they were there - that's a fact too.