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AIBU?

To really hate the "JSA is a pittance" opinion

216 replies

sezamcgregor · 07/07/2014 10:52

I'm currently reading a lot about the Working Class in Victorian times - you know, when if you had a lazy husband who didn't work, you had to live in buildings condemned as unfit for human habitation with a different family in each room, lived on a diet of black bread and weak tea and watched your children slowly die of starvation. Or you worked in the mills (or similar), and you had to choose between pulling your children out of school as soon as they were old enough to work to get the meagre income that they would bring to the household or letting them get some kind of an education.

If you are unemployed now - you get your rent paid, council tax paid plus an amount of money given to you to buy food and other luxuries.

I'm so bored of having the conversation with people about how difficult it is to manage on £70 per week - even with Tax Credits, Child Benefit etc. Yeah, try telling our grandparents that Hmm

OP posts:
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Darkesteyes · 09/07/2014 00:26
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IamRechargingthankYou · 09/07/2014 00:33

Sez - the Victorian poverty you describe was an experience shared by millions. There was a certain pride in being the necessary 'scum' - culture, identity (even though it involved death, illness and more than would be tolerated/legally allowed today). Nowadays, there is no pride in being the necessary 'poor'. Poor now= scum that gets in the way of being ostentatiously consumerist and therefore inferior, and not necessary (even though the poorest are the most necessary economic group of any). I'm neither myself but feel sorry for anyone that is caught up in either of these identities.

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 00:35

Luxuries, i work but my friend loast her job after paying tax for years.

Income £70

Outgoings

Bedroom Tax 12.50
Water Rates 10.00
Electric 10.00
Gas varies say 10.00
TV Licence 5.00
Bus Fares £8.00
Internet and phone for job hunting (locked into a contract from when she was working £10.00


Total £55.50


Food including dog food for her rescue dog she had when working
Soap powder and toiletries, lady stuff, deodrant

Maybe she can book a holiday to the Maldives with the change or get herself a 60 inch plasma.

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 00:45

And are people seriously saying because a childs parents are skint they should be walked to the nearest library which could be miles away so they can do their homework. If there is no internet at home thats the only option and the bus fares would probably cost more than the internet package anyway. Are you seriously saying kids should be walked to the library if they are too young to get there themselves, my library is miles away so i would have to take the 5 year old out in win, rain or shine, dark nights so dd aged 10 can do her homework

my dds get mounds of homework between them plus mathletics online.

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 00:47

Plus op in your grandparents time people helped each other, neighbours helped each other. Do you help your neighbours op?

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Darkesteyes · 09/07/2014 00:52

EXACTLY Corey That's why I got into a disagreement about it on the linked thread. Ludicrous isn't it?

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JakeBullet · 09/07/2014 06:29

Violet, have you considered areas where there is a lack of public transport or where homes might be miles from anywhere?

It's just that I have been in the situation where I was on benefits. I lived at the time in the middle of nowhere. Without a car I would have been stuck there. So I would argue that a car is not an essential in some cases.
I now live in an urban area bit if I were in that situation again I would still need a car as an essential item. My child is autistic and cannot travel easily on public transport. ...unless you want us to sit next to you Wink I guarantee you would rapidly deduce that in our case a car was an essential. We are far from alone in that. There are thousands of people in the same difficult situation.

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VioletHare · 09/07/2014 06:46

Lastly, I think it is utterly mean-spirited to deny people any enjoyment in life. In Holland if you are on benefits, you get holiday money. It isn't a lot, but it's for enjoyment. Happiness is a basic and essential need

But the nature of jsa is that it is supposed to be short term. Holiday money? I think that's ridiculous tbh.

Yes i suppose there are specific cases where a car and/or the Internet is essential. But I do think that most people could get along without, if they had to.

We are very fortunate that we live in a Country where we have such a (IMO) good benefits system. You'll get enough to feed, clothe and house yourself. Your children can go to school and you can get free health care regardless of income.

Just many of the posts on here kind of illustrate my point. Long rants listing all outgoings from £70 per week with shitty comments about what they'll spend the leftovers on. JSA isn't supposed to be 'easy'. If it was the Country would have bigger problems that we have now.

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diaimchlo · 09/07/2014 08:00

Yes i suppose there are specific cases where a car and/or the Internet is essential. But I do think that most people could get along without, if they had to.

Nobody that is in receipt of JSA can get along without the internet it is an essential, they have to be registered on the gov's jobs website to prove that they are actively looking for work or they get sanctioned. So no they can't get along without it.

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0pheliaBalls · 09/07/2014 08:04

DH was made redundant 5 years ago (found a job after a year, thank god, but it was scary). We had no internet at home so DD had to walk a mile and a half round trip to get to the library to do her homework. In ALL weathers, including three foot deep snow. It broke our hearts. The library was full of noisy gangs of kids on Facebook or playing games and often the computers were fully booked meaning she'd have to come home again. She couldn't concentrate to do her work and in any case she had a maximum of two hours to do it in. Less if it was after school seeing as the library was only open until 5 and she had already had to walk a mile and a half home from school - she literally came home and went back out again. If the computers were down or she couldn't get to use one and her homework went undone, she got a detention, despite the teachers being aware of the situation. She was 11 at the time. I'll never forget her having to go out in a blizzard to do maths homework.

And you're suggesting that internet isn't an essential?

(Same applied to DH's job hunting - if we'd had the internet at home we're sure he would've found a job sooner. You try applying for jobs - including doing online interviews - in a library full of screeching kids drinking Red Bull and playing loud games. IF you're lucky enough to have been able to get a computer at the appointed time, that is.)

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pointythings · 09/07/2014 08:19

Thank you, Violet for proving my point.

I'm not on JSA, by the way. Never have been. But unlike you, I don't begrudge people the help they get. Did you know that UK levels of JSA are among the lowest in Europe? Maybe you do, and you don't care.

You probably also think that food parcels from food banks shouldn't contain biscuits or sweets - heaven forfend that the poor should have any small pleasures in their lives.

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dawndonnaagain · 09/07/2014 08:30

Gosh Violet, are you aware of what actually happens to people on JSA. Sanctions etc. Sanctioning those with mental health problems, with children, with physical disabilities? You begrudge enjoyment? Does that count for those with disabilities and carers too?

sanctions

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 08:47

Just many of the posts on here kind of illustrate my point. Long rants listing all outgoings from £70 per week with shitty comments about what they'll spend the leftovers on. JSA isn't supposed to be 'easy'. If it was the Country would have bigger problems that we have now.

My list was used to illustrate to the op thaat there is no money left for 'luxuries' like clothes

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 08:56

Plus many if the people on benefits have paid in fir year, been tax payers and paid into a system there to help them should they fall on hard times. I paid in for 18 years and claimed for 4 years, hopefully i wont ever have to claim again so i bet i pay in far more than i ever take out in mt lifetime.

If life is so great on benefits why not give your job your lucky enough to have to someone who's desperate to work and get off benefits. Be careful because one day you or your kids might end up on JSA. I did and its a horrible situation to be in. With kids im £175 a week better off. I get the same benefits as what i got before, £100.96 wages and and extra £75 tax credits. I dont pay any tax and claim more benefits working than what i did claiming JSA.

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ILoveCoreyHaim · 09/07/2014 08:56

Oops excuse thlos as im on phone

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Numanoid · 09/07/2014 09:23

We are very fortunate that we live in a Country where we have such a (IMO) good benefits system. You'll get enough to feed, clothe and house yourself.

I personally know 2 people who physically can't leave the house to get to a food bank, and are stuck at home with no food because their benefits have been sanctioned. How is the welfare system such a good one when I'm giving food to friends who can't afford any themselves? I don't begrudge it at all, I give to food banks as well because I think if you can, you should, but it shouldn't be coming to that.

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LuisSuarezTeeth · 09/07/2014 09:24

corey some people will just never get it.

Phone/bb - locked into contract
Car - there are NO buses. And how can I get to work (as a home carer) without a car?

Long rants my arse. FACTS.

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LuisSuarezTeeth · 09/07/2014 09:28

I've been sanctioned on a technicality, that happened 2 years ago when I was working.

I can't survive on JSA, never mind when they cut it altogether.

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Numanoid · 09/07/2014 09:37

It's the fact that they sanction disabled people for being unable to attend interviews, and refuse to budge until a doctor has verified the person really is unable to go. Never mind if that person is in a wheelchair or obviously unable to move, it has to be proven. That really bugs me.

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DogCalledRudis · 09/07/2014 09:45

I'm always amazed at "taxpayers" whinging about some unfortunate people on benefits, but never even half of that rage directed at let's say war in Afghanistan or nuclear weapons.

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dawndonnaagain · 09/07/2014 09:47

Oh, and actually we have one of the worst benefit rates in Europe.

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D0oinMeCleanin · 09/07/2014 09:51

JSA is not enough to clothe your children adequately. Needing to replace worn out school shoes can make the difference between being able to top up the gas meter or having no heat/hot water for a week.

One of my friends often asks me if I've any unwanted school shoes her dd can use until she can afford new ones.

It's just enough to manage on. It doesn't take into account unforeseen circumstances such as needing to replace worn out uniform or broken appliances. Oh and even the government now accept that Internet is essential.

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Numanoid · 09/07/2014 09:57

I'm always amazed at "taxpayers" whinging about some unfortunate people on benefits, but never even half of that rage directed at let's say war in Afghanistan or nuclear weapons.

I wouldn't call it whinging, and it's a sweeping generalisation. People will tend to be more affected by things that have an impact on their own lives. For example, a friend calling to say they haven't eaten in a few days because they can't afford to.

It's easier to forget other issues, such as nuclear weapons and war, due to work, personal issues, family, etc.... Plus there is only so much people can do. It's another issue altogether, but that's why I support Scottish independence - no more Trident (hopefully), a small defence force (no more getting involved in wars, again hopefully) and a better benefits system.

I've never referred to myself as a "taxpayer" in that sense, there is a moment of Shock and Sad when I see my payslip and the tax deductions, but that's it. Grin (I don't begrudge taxes that much, honestly!)

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MissDuke · 09/07/2014 09:59

Back in those days, life expectancy was much shorter and many more women died in childbirth - should we go back to that too?

I don't understand your argument op - we should surely be striving to eradicate poverty, not increase it?

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Nymeria01 · 09/07/2014 09:59

OP if you argument is based on a comparison with the Victorian model then its fair to conclude that its not very good. Looking at it with 21st century eyes living on welfair is clearly not as great as you make it sound.

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