To really hate the "JSA is a pittance" opinion

[sezamcgregor]

I'm currently reading a lot about the Working Class in Victorian times - you know, when if you had a lazy husband who didn't work, you had to live in buildings condemned as unfit for human habitation with a different family in each room, lived on a diet of black bread and weak tea and watched your children slowly die of starvation. Or you worked in the mills (or similar), and you had to choose between pulling your children out of school as soon as they were old enough to work to get the meagre income that they would bring to the household or letting them get some kind of an education.

If you are unemployed now - you get your rent paid, council tax paid plus an amount of money given to you to buy food and other luxuries.

I'm so bored of having the conversation with people about how difficult it is to manage on £70 per week - even with Tax Credits, Child Benefit etc. Yeah, try telling our grandparents that

[TucsonGirl]

Well that isn't my experience. I seem to know of plenty of long-term benefit claimants who seem to have more money than many working people do.

[YouTheCat]

Really? You know their complete financial circumstances and a breakdown of how and where they spend their money?

[twofingerstoGideon]

Its very unlikely someone on JSA will be 'trying to buy'

Why? I've been paying a mortgage for about 15 years. I've been working for around 30 years. If I lost my job, I'd have to apply for JSA. Being a 'homeowner' doesn't protect you from redundancy.

[D0oinMeCleanin]

Seem to have is key really, isn't it?

I seem to be quite well off. We have all the trappings of a reasonably comfortable lifestyle.

We have the flat screen, the X-box, the children have their own laptops and tablets, we have a reasonably high spec PC and nice clothes and designer shoes.

The reality is I am skint. You wouldn't think so if you walked into our home, but I am and I will remain to be skint until the house is sorted, which thankfully is very nearly done now. There's not much left I still need to buy.

All of our nice things were bought when we were still living with ex. The majority were sourced second hand, for next to nothing. I am in debt for some of it.

Benefits claimants do not get enough money for holidays, nights out and nice things, unless they go without decent meals. Yes, some choose to smoke over topping up the electric meter or buying food. Most don't.

[Deverethemuzzler]

twofinger so if you were on JSA would you be browsing Estate Agencies?

Of course you wouldn't. Who tries to buy a house when they are on JSA?

You already own a house. You are not trying to buy one.

[Deverethemuzzler]

Tucson of course they haven't.

You do know the difference between 'I don't have any money' and 'I have spent all my money' don't you?

I might have little left at the end of the month but I have a house and a car and I have paid my utility bills and have a freezer full of food.

Doesn't make me poor. Just means I have spent my money.

People on benefits still have to pay bills and feed their families and clothe themselves. School shoes for people on benefits are no cheaper than they are for me.

[dawndonnaagain]

I don't think the welfare state should be paying out more than a pittance.
It is not currently enough to survive in many cases.
What do you propose to do about pensioners and the disabled, bearing in mind that the biggest part of the welfare bill goes to pensioners>

[tethersend]

"Well that isn't my experience. I seem to know of plenty of long-term benefit claimants who seem to have more money than many working people do."

That's because wages are too low, not benefits too high.

[twofingerstoGideon]

I took joysmum's post to mean 'buying with a mortgage'. FWIW, I don't yet 'own' my house- only about 30% of it. The Halifax owns the rest. Having no help with the cost of housing if I were unlucky enough to be made redundant would almost certainly mean losing my home, as I couldn't manage the repayments without my salary. If I was renting, I'd get significant help with housing costs - even if it didn't cover the entire amount. I do think joysmum has a point that 'homeowners' - who are usually no such thing unless their mortgage is paid off - are vulnerable.

[Laquitar]

If this is your conclusion after reading about the victorian era then some people shouldn't read.

[SallyMcgally]

I'm so bored of having the conversation with people about how difficult it is to manage on £70 per week - even with Tax Credits, Child Benefit etc.

Sorry you find it boring to think about how people manage on JSA, OP. Let's hope you never find yourself in the position of having to lie awake at night wondering how you're going to manage to give your children the luxury of food, once you've paid off the rent, CT, water, electricity etc, those other luxuries.

We pay into the system partly in the trust that if disaster strikes (and who, really, is immune from unforeseen disaster?) we can be looked after until we can find our feet again. We also pay into it because it makes for a far more dangerous society if people feel desperate and hopeless, and are forced into crime.

It's depressing that this still needs to be spelled out. Looks like the Daily Mail is working very effectively.

[Darkesteyes]

I saw that John Humphries programme. It was very biased and propaganderish.

He was going on about food banks in Greece which was fair enough they've been hit bloody hard over there financially but he was doing it while omitting to mention there was also a steady rise in foodbanks over here and he was demonizing people over here in the UK who have to claim.

[SpeedofSound0]

Tucson

You seem to know, seem being the operative word.
You do not actually know, unless of course the people you're referring to are family members. Neighbours or friends would hardly broadcast their business to somebody with your mindset. But then, I am making
assumptions, as are you.

You seem to not understand that the vast majority of people on JSA have worked, therefore they have paid into a system which should entitle them to payouts when they are forced to leave their jobs through redundancy/illness etc. This pittance you're referring to is just that, a pittance. Considering the amount of tax they will have been paying whilst in work, JSA would not even cover the bare minimum.

I want to live in a society where we treat the most vulnerable individuals with compassion and to give them the safety net that they need to survive. The Tories are hell-bent on destroying that with their divide and rule, workhouse mentality, and the working-class scum hectoring by the Daily Heil and the Torygraph is frankly disgusting.

I also am getting quite pissed off with seeing these threads on MN, there are a few going nearly every week. And people like the OP know full well they are being unreasonable, they put them on AIBU to provoke a reaction and goad people.

Well, I am proud to pay into a system that stops the poor, disabled and elderly from starving or freezing to death, or to help people who are down on their luck at the moment. I am not happy about people kicking other people when they are down, or the fact that this government is destroying this safety net and people having to accept foodbank handouts. Whilst the bankers , tax avoiding businesses, and the richest few cream everything off the top.

[Deverethemuzzler]

twofingers well not many people own their house outright but they are still considered homeowners. By any stretch and by any standards if you have a home, mortgaged or not, you ARE considered a 'homeowner'.


Homeowners DO get help with the cost of housing.

It is a myth that they do not but one that is easy to research with minimum googling.

If you were unfortunate enough to lose the home that you own you would be entitled to housing benefit to rent, just like everyone else.

I am not suggest that would be pleasant. I would hate to lose my house. But you would be entitled to exactly the same as everyone else.

How is that unfair?

[CalamitouslyWrong]

OP: you do realise that, while £70 was a lot of money in Victorian times, it doesn't stretch quite as far these days. Don't you?

[sashh]

OP

Have a look at the history of public health. Victorian times is when someone looked around and thought, "thees people are not poor because they are ill, they are ill because they are poor".

Victorian reforms were based on the principle that a healthy workforce was better for business.

[diaimchlo]

ScarletDragon

OP is George Osbourne in disguise. George does Dave know you're trolling MN again? The telling off he gave you last time must have been completely inadequate. What do you expect from a Tory.

I don't think it's GO I think it is definitely Iain Duncan "I'll look you in the eye whilst I lie to you and strip you of all your dignity and eat my £39 breakfast" Smith

[SallyMcgally]

Is that the same IDS who proudly announced that he could live off benefits in his in-laws lodge on the estate where all bills etc would automatically be paid?? £70 for food for one person doesn't seem too difficult, no.

[SpeedofSound0]

SallyMcgally

It could be hamster-face Esther McVile.

[pointythings]

Unkind to hamsters, speed.

[lifehasafunnywayofhelpinguout]

RNever claimed jsa, but I'D wouldn't be able to surive on it. Also what do you mean by luxuries exactly? Shoes clothes healthy food. Do you expect people to let their children go barefoot. You sound very judgemental.
I hope that karma isn't listening to you, as she may pay you a visit in the form of unemployment, and then you will see how easy life is for the poor

[LongTimeLurking]

So because things were worse for previous generations people shouldn't complain that they don't have enough money to live off if they find themselves in unfortunate circumstances?

If you are unemployed now - you get your rent paid, council tax paid plus an amount of money given to you to buy food and other luxuries.

Luxuries - really? what fucking planet are you on. JSA is about £73 a week for over 25s. If you have to actually live off that for any significant amount of time it is virtually impossible - food, gas, electric, water, clothes, shoes, bus fares..... come to way more than £70 a week.

Plus it is actually quite expensive to job search properly. You require access to a computer and the internet, smart clothes, travel expenses and so on.

Of course YABU

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

I'm still amused by the OP's Victorian grandparents. Long generations!

[expatinscotland]

The quality of goady fuckers has gone to the dogs.

[DogCalledRudis]

Food is a luxury...
That's why i'm happy for welfare state. It makes employers pay a better wage otherwise people would be fighting for a loaf of bread.