Is my nanny taking the michael? Or am I being judgey?

[stinkingbishop]

We've already had a few talks about time off. She's got 20 days' holiday a year. We're at 27 days off already including holiday still to be taken and 5 days sick/appointments. Some of that time is holiday we're taking, so she has to be off, but she's known those dates for ages and could have sorted her own holiday accordingly (she's young, free and single).

Last week she texted late at night to ask if she could have a.n.other day as she'd got flights wrong, and I said, OK, but we're going to have to start docking pay now as it's getting silly as I have to pay for extra cover/not work. Miraculously the flight sorted itself out.

Last Monday she had an urgent hospital appointment for a problem with her jaw. Fine. But she booked it in the middle of the day which meant there was no point coming in at all. Again, I couldn't work. She then texted to say it was because she was grinding her teeth thanks to stress, and she needed to calm down.

Am I being a beeyatch to think being a nanny isn't the most stressful occupation in the world????

And then at the weekend she texts to say she fainted, was taken to the walk in centre, who told her she was anemic, needs to be on iron pills, and was to take the whole week off.

I'm retraining in a medical field and this was my first week of seeing patients and I was so excited! Am scrabbling round trying to sort things out with a childcare jigsaw puzzle and trying sooooo hard not to text something counter productive and rude back/panic/rage...

WWYD wise MNers?

The DTDs (age 2) love her. She's v good at playing with them. There's some stuff I'm not happy with as she has funny priorities, but not sure that's relevant here?

[maddening]

Could you go through an agency who could provide cover for sick days of their nanny?

[trufflesnout]

Agree with TickleMePurple. If she is sick then I think yours & others attitudes surrounding sick employees suck. Just because you work with people who have neurological problems does not mean that she is weak for "feeling a bit tired"

Ask for a doctors note and follow whatever standard procedure is. If you want to get rid because she's flaky, then get rid - but you can't just dismiss her because she's been ill, surely?

[PowerPants]

Get rid - and do it now. I have had nannies for ten years and she is sending out massive red flags. I have learned my lesson now, after being far too soft when first employing nannies. There are two types of nanny - one that is dedicated, adores children and treats nannying as a career (which it is). To them it is a vocation. Then there is another type, who loves children, and erm, that's it. They don't see it from YOUR point of view, that they are there to allow you to have your career.

[caruthers]

1.2The Employer may require you to undergo a medical examination by a medical practitioner nominated by it at any stage of your employment. The costs will be met by the Employer and you will co-operate in the disclosure of all results and reports.

Really?

This nannying business isn't at all personal these days is it?

If I worked for someone as a private employee there's no way i'd allow them to ship me off for a medical.

[FergusSingsTheBlues]

She sounds like me when I was at school :)
I was a horror, an Unreliable malingerer. Just CBa. Maybe she's just not into it....is she v young?

[eddielizzard]

i agree with you. she's not a good fit for you.

[Cornettoninja]

Sending some positive vibes to your fil - how bloody awful.

Hopefully once your dh has managed to physically see him and talk with the dr's your worries will ease a bit. Nothing worse than not knowing what you're dealing with.

I don't think your relationship with your nanny is salvageable now, far to much stress and resentment associated with her. You will find a better fit.

[doughballdoughballdoughball]

On reflection, it might well be in your nanny's best interests if you were to let her go. I know I wouldn't want to work for someone who speculated about my health on line.

You've posted quite a lot of specific information about yourself on this thread which makes you and ergo your nanny quite identifiable. As a HCP you should know it is bang out of order for be putting confidential details of her health in the public domain.

[notapizzaeater]

I'd have to let her go regardless, you need someone you can rely on and hope that they will go the extra mile.

Hope FIL is ok.

[Gen35]

I completely agree stinking you pay more for a nanny so that you don't have to take so any sick days and have someone you can really rely on, it's absolutely central. Whether she's ill or not, she doesn't seem reliable. I don't think her tone sounds great either, she's not telling you it's a one off and this will be the last time or giving you any reassurance apart from aiming to carry on. Hope FIL recovers.

[HopefulHamster]

Can you ask your nanny if there's any way she's feeling better and explain you need to see your FIL?

I really hope he's okay - sounds terrifying. I agree that generally speaking she needs to go.

doughball - you could be a bit more sympathetic given the context at the moment.

[stinkingbishop]

doughball you're right actually, sorry, do you think I should get this deleted?

[MsVestibule]

bishop, yes you should get it deleted. Whilst I have every sympathy for your situation (genuinely), your last post has made you extremely identifiable to any MNers who know you IRL. Ergo, they'll know all about your nanny's health issues. And you don't want a tribunal on your hands on top of everything else...

[CSIJanner]

Stinking - you could delete the entire thread or ask for specific posts to be deleted by reporting them

[MehsMum]

Believe me, nanny-stress is different from parent-stress.

Nanny-stress: Friday afternoon, you're knackered, kids are tired, it's been a busy week. 6.30, a parent gets in (after a day at work) and then has to look after the kids while you sod off home/to your room. If you don't have your own kids, you're done till Monday. No matter how much you love the kids you nanny for, you almost certainly don't worry about them in the way the parents do.

Parent-stress: get in from work, chat to kids, cook supper (with the kids at foot), ring the vet (with the kids at foot), wonder when the hell you're going to get the lawn mown (with the kids at foot), get kids to bed.

Nanny meanwhile can cook her own meal if peace if she lives out, or be jollying off out for the evening if she lives in.

I've done both: nannied and had my own kids. Own kids are much more stressful.

She may have other stress factors (sick parent? housing issues? shitty DP?) but it really sounds to me as if she needs to grow up. I think you were BU abut the jaw appointment, but not the rest.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

Step 1. Pay her statutory sick pay only for the days she has had off. It's not uncommon for families to pay a full salary for the first 5 days off (in total) over a yearly period. Many corporate firms will move you to statutory after 7 or more individual absences [ie, not if you've had a certifiable 5+ days off. - they tend not to be included in the "possible malingering total"

Step 2. Sit her down and tell her that her continuous absences are now putting your employment at risk and if it continues you may need to seek alternative forms of childcare which give you more resilience eg: a nursery. Establish if there is a problem that she is willing to discuss face to face

Step 3. You can invoke the contract clause requiring her to be examined. A medical practitioner (as far as I know) will simply state whether or not she is fit for work, not disclose her personal details. It's a standard clause in most people's contracts [to the poster above having a hissy fit about it]

The week off for anemia - its either rubbish or there is an underlying condition. A professional worth their salt would take the tablets and get on with it.

Very sorry to hear the bad news about your FIL. Try not to let it suck you into making poor decisions that might land you in an employment tribunal. Call Nannytax - they can advise and give you letters as far as I know.

A mate had this issue - as soon as she moved to SSP the nanny's health seemed to make a miraculous improvement. She went from 7 days illness in 12 weeks to 1 further day off in the remaining year.

[HermioneWeasley]

Stinking, please, I am begging you, just sack her

[HappyAgainOneDay]

Interesting about the flight miraculously back to where it should have been. As for being given* a hospital appointment, there's nothing wrong with contacting the appointment office and asking for it to be changed. I've done that several times and that office is very accommodating. I do know that some 'clinics' take place on specific days of the week though but you can change the time. Ergo, if the nanny were given an 11.30am appointment, she could have enquired about changing it to 9.00am or 4.30pm.

[Chippednailvarnish]

Excellent advice from Tread.

[Cindy34]

Do as Tread says. Use the legal advice available from the payroll provider if necessary. ACAS also has lots of info on their website about disciplinary procedures, holiday pay, sick pay, contracts (written statement).

Do the return to work interview, decide if you really want them to continue in the job or not, give them notice to leave (pay the notice if you do not want them to work the notice period).

How long have they been in your employment?
Are they still in probation period? Useful to have a probation period in contracts, as notice period during that time is shorter so either side can terminate if it is not working out.

[stinkingbishop]

Thanks all. Have messaged MN about the identifiable bits. Good heads up! Was a bit caught up in the moment and not thinking things through.

Some really good advice on here so will talk through with DP when I ever see him and I think will defo speak to Nannytax legal (given we used their contract). Unless she blows me away when she's back next week with apology/genuine illness/some sort of acknowledgement of what this has caused and how it can never happen again, I am getting rid, and using this as a learning experience as people suggest ie much more scrutiny in the interview and references and a tighter contract. Interestingly, have had no contact at all today - she said I would be getting daily updates. The last message I sent was a very matter of fact one about a sick note and now nothing...

DFIL is battered, bruised, still v confused, but seems to be getting all the right treatment and tests and they're keeping him in and then strongly urging that he stays with us for a while so we can keep an eye on him. Could have been so much worse.

Thanks again wise people .

[Molio]

OP another one here with experience saying she needs the boot, and fast. She's obviously a complete shirker and it won't change. Perhaps nannying attracts these types more than most. You're quite right, nannying isn't especially stressful in itself, it's a pretty soft job. Best wishes to FIL.

[PowerPants]

Good luck stinking and may your FIL get well again soon. Tread's advice is spot on.

She has to go - she is making your life more stressful, not less.

[musicalendorphins2]

She has really let you down now. I would let her go, and make other arrangements. Someone who has a proven by references, good work ethic.
I hope your father in law will make a full and speedy recovery.