to be absolutely furious about football chief and emails referring to women as 'gash'??

[BeanAboutTown]

Sorry if there are other threads about this, couldn't find any.

Richard Scudamore, head of the Premier League, has been merrily sending emails referring to women as 'gash' and 'skinny big-titted broads', 'irrational' and lots of other incendiary misogynist shite.

Oh but he's apologised. That's nice eh, nothing to see here

Apparently he reports to the Premier League Board, which is two people, one of whom is errrrrr Richard Scudamore

AIBU to think an apology is nowhere near enough and he should bloody well resign?

It's been reported that the Premier League's women's officer has been told not to make any comment. Wouldn't want the shiny-suited money-making boys' club to be unnecessarily disturbed by any harpies would we

Anyone for a Premier League boycott next season? (Congrats to Man City by the way) How about we all give our money to the women's game instead

[OutsSelf]

You are not 'merely' insisting we stay 'on topic'. You are insisting that there is no equivalence between racism as a form of discrimination and sexism as a form of discrimination.

People who don't see an equivalence between racism as a prejudice and sexism as a prejudice, believing one to be bad and the other to be of less concern/ a completely different issue are necessarily saying one form of discrimination is more acceptable. In this case, if you are saying that the way that we treat racist comments should have no equivalence to how we treat sexist comments, you are saying that sexism is not as discriminatory or important as racism; this means necessarily you regard some degree of discrimination on the basis of sex as acceptable; ergo you are sexist.

[BomChickaMeowMeow]

I think the fact it was in a private email makes it worse, as it betrays his underlying views. No-one expressing those views should be allowed to continue in a high-profile role.

[gotnotimeforthat]

outself

People like Scudamore seem to believe those fundamental qualities can be encapsulated in words like 'gash' which has an element of hatred and disgust in it, as well as inferring that having female genitalia is akin to having a wound; women are damaged people

That's how you interpret it. You could ask a number of men that have used that word and I bet barely any of them will interpret it that way.

I think the word gash is used more for the appearance of the vagina. I don't think it is supposed to imply we are broken at all.

[Nomama]

Outself, there is no corollary... racism does not lead to or cause sexism, or vice versa.

There are similarities, many of which you posted. But no corollary, you cannot make the statement that X is racist therefore he is sexist too.


And if any of the rest of that post was aimed at me, maybe if you re-read my post you might understand the point I was trying to make. You seem to have missed it entirely.

[mammamic]

pls 'friend' me - best thing I've read on here for some time!

[CommunistLegoBloc]

'Making is worse' seems the best wording for you to use, gotnotime given that your point seems to be that racism is worse than sexism as an act of discrimination.

If sexism isn't as bad as racism then some aspects of sexism must be acceptable to you, or at least more acceptable? Doesn't make a lot of sense though, that. Something is either acceptable because it is not offensive, or it's is not acceptable because it is.

You don't call people 'a bit' racist. You don't call people 'a bit' sexist either. You are or you ain't. If you espouse a discriminatory view, then that's what you are. No increments in strength of wording to describe you.

[KERALA1]

Never understood why racism so unacceptable but misogyny isn't makes no rational sense.

[LineRunner]

'Worse' is the comparative of 'bad' so at least there is acceptance that what Scudamore has done is bad. BAD.

[gotnotimeforthat]

outself

Could you possibly quote me on where I said that sexism is not as important as racism?

I said it was irrelevant to the topic. He wasn't being racist so there is no need to bring it into the conversation. Just like there is no need to bring in homophobia or agism or any other ism for that matter. This doesn't mean I think in is more important than the other it means that we are talking about a man making sexist remarks so why on earth are we talking about racism instead.

[OutsSelf]

Agree sexism and racism do not cause each other. They are both discriminatory ways of thinking and therefore should face the same degree of social sanction. After all, we object to racism because it is discriminatory.

Your point that the battle against sexism does not need shoring up misses the point of comparing the two: people are in fact pointing to the way that sexism is minimised. Saying sexism is not as bad as racism is a way of minimising sexism.

Men or women using the word gash have to be absolutely stupid not to think of it as a derogatory word. Cunt, which has also been cited as hateful, is hateful in terms of its usage. But gash literally means a wound. I think it would not in any way harm anyone's self image to refer to their genetalia as a cunt, but it is inescapable when we say gash that we are also saying wound.

[Nomama]

I think it was where you said 'seem to make it worse' that was pounced upon, gotnotime!

I read it as a continuation of previous posts, but obviously it was taken as a standalone comment and judged with the big judgey knickers well and truly hoiked up to chin level

It's an emotive subject, isn't it, the outrage, the outrage

[mammamic]

gotnotime - so 'gash' is in reference to appearance. I haven't seen enough 'gashes' to be sure, but of the 'gashes' I have seen, I can categorically say that none has every looked like a gash ('a long, deep cut or wound').

I'm also happy to say that thankfully, as far as I am aware, none of the men I know would use the word gash to describe a female.

It can be dressed up/down/explained as much as ppl like - gash is offensive. It is meant to be offensive. Any human with a few brain cells would be aware that this is the case. And those same men who use the work gash also probably use other friendly, none offensive, unfortunate, non sexist, non bigoted expressions like 'axe wound' as well. Another lovely image conjured up to describe the part of a human that, for most of the population, was our safe, perfectly evolved introduction and aid to getting where we are today - and don't read too much into it - just birth is enough. Forget the wisdom, love, and complete dedication that most gashes give for their whole lives from when their gash helped them give birth.

[OutsSelf]

Could you possibly quote me on where I said that sexism is not as important as racism?

By insisting that they are not equivalent: they are both forms of discrimination based on physical and genetic effects. In this sense they are equivalent. Insisting that they aren't; and that racism is used to 'make the situation worse' suggests that sexism is not as bad as racism, which ergo is sexist, for reasons I've already stated.

The thing we apparently do not agree on is that racism and sexism are manifestations of discriminatory thinking. If you accept this then you must accept that they should be treated with equivalence. That they are not is evidence that sexism is minimised. You sound like you are minimising sexism by saying a comparison of racism and sexism makes the situation worse; I think the comparison exemplifies the ways in which sexism is minimised because it is deemed more acceptable than racism.

[gotnotimeforthat]

outself

You keep mentioning how we think racism is worse than sexism yet none of us have actually said that. You are pulling that out of thin air.

[Nomama]

But I have not said sexism is not as bad as racism... you may have conflated my view with that of others and, in doing so misinterpreted me and put words in my mouth.

I have not missed the point that sexism is minimised, I am pointing out that, in my view, persisting in linking it to racism is denigrating it, belittling it, reducing its importance. That is the point you have missed.

[gotnotimeforthat]

outself

By insisting that they are not equivalent

No I insisted it wasn't relevant. I haven't once said they wasn't equivalent.

[mammamic]

and I am not understanding the lack of understanding to OutsSelf's post.

At no point did OS say that racism causes sexism or that if someone is racist then they are sexist too. I've re-read the whole thread a number of times and cannot find this.

What OS did say was that the two are most definitely linked (and they are - no doubt there - it is fact) when looking at attitudes and reactions. It is used as an example - that's all. nothing more or less.

seems clear but maybe I missed something.

[OutsSelf]

I think my outrage is related to the way that causual sexim relates to wider, societal violence against women. The small bodily acts of violence in which self hatred is cultivated in girls and women. The mundane acts of social violence which mean that just to walk down the street minding my own business is not regarded as my entitlement. And the acts of domestic violence which kill two women a week, put countless more into unstable housing with their children, and routinely see (routine as in 1 in 5) women subject to non-consensual sex. It's hard not to feel outraged that my daughter must walk among this, being as she and all other babies are, utterly perfect and blameless.

[KERALA1]

It's discriminating and judging someone negatively for something fundamental about themselves that they cannot help - colour of skin or gender. Identical concepts don't understand why they are treated any differently.

[OutsSelf]

But if they both discriminatory attitudes, surely how we treat one form of discrimination is pertinent to how we treat the other?

[gotnotimeforthat]

nomama

I have not missed the point that sexism is minimised, I am pointing out that, in my view, persisting in linking it to racism is denigrating it, belittling it, reducing its importance. That is the point you have missed.

That's the point I was trying to make.. You just worded it better

[OutsSelf]

When you say, comparing racism to sexism 'makes the situation worse' you are saying that it wasn't originally as bad as racism, so we've made it so. That itself - though not directly, as an effect of logic - means that a sexist situation is not as bad as a racist one.

[gotnotimeforthat]

mamamic

Outseld said that to suggest racism is not relevant to this man being sexist makes myself a sexist.

Because apparently relevant and equivalent now have the same definition

[FobblyWoof]

No one has said at any point that sexism equals racism. The point of bringing race into the debate is merely to point out that had the remarks been racist instead of sexist then a lot of the population would be up in arms about it. There would be no debate on the issue. Yet, because it was sexism, not racism, all he's done is apologised and is allowed to carry on. No media attention. Nothing.

No one is saying that if you're a racist you're also sexist and vice versa. They are the same form of discrimination (genetic) and yet they treated completely differently. What part of this are you not understanding?

People only bring racism into the argument as a comparison, not an accusation.

[OutsSelf]

Okay, if you think that sexism is just horrible enough to be treated in its own way, but in relation to this and other 'media moments' see that it is not being treated even as seriously as racism, can you see why posters might think it useful to point to the discrepancies? How the FA in the past has handled discrimination (on the basis of race) should be an exemplar of how it is treated here. Except it is not yet. There is therefore a tacit assertion that sexism is not as bad as racism. And if we insist on treating sexism and racism as entirely separate rather than simple instances of discriminatory practice, we are asserting that there is something fundamental to issues of race and gender which mean discrimination on their basis is either more or less acceptable, correlatively. Which in itself is potentially sexist and/or racist.