Help me to make my dd kinder to her friends?

[nottonightjoesphine]

Sorry for posting here. I feel really upset. My dd (6) is an only child. She has a pretty fractious relationship with her 'best' friend' in that she is very intense with her, doesn't give her a lot of space and friend inevitably gets frustrated with my dd. Friend recently had a playdate at ours and my dd did her head in, I watched it with my own eyes.

I am not one of these parents who can't see my child's faults and more than ever I am seeing that my dd argues the toss with her friends constantly. If she has a play date at our house with them, she bosses them around, won't share her toys, and if they say black, she will say white. The latter point is excruciating to witness in itself and I can't help getting involved and telling dd off when I see it. A typical example will be, she will have three friends over....and they watch to watch film A. Before it even happens, I just know dd is going to say she wants to watch film B. She couldn't give a flying fuck that she's in the minority and will sit there arguing and arguing to have the opposite of whatever everyone else has agreed on. She argues about rules in a game, who's playing what role etc. Sometimes, i'm so aghast at her behaviour that I feel like crying because I just know their tolerance of her will not last. There are occasions where she is arguing against the most ridiculous of things, like she wanted a video clip on you tube to start from a very specific part of the song, and not at the beginning, so she makes everyone miss out on that part. She had a sleepover a few weeks ago and they were singing along to a song from a film and she was moaning at them to stop singing as she wanted to hear it. I am just constantly telling her off when friends are over because she only behaves like this around them. When I am telling her off in front of them (which I don't want to do), she answers me back, and I always end up so incensed that I want to cancel the date/sleepover but never feel that I can because of the other kids sitting there in the middle of a film or whatever.
Play dates are rarely reciprocated but always gladly accepted. I can't work out if this is just the area I live in (lots of takers) or if it's just that the kids don't want my dd around at their house because of her behaviour.

One of the biggest blows to me recently was that her after school club leader told me that she irritates the other children a lot, because she goes out of her way to argue about the rules of a game or whatever. This caused me to go home and cry. Literally.

What can I do? We don't behave like this in our home, we are kind to each other, we are patient, we take turns. I don't know where I have wrong and I'm so sad about it.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Great post ohbythen! Thanks a lot.
Do you have any books that you recommend on teaching these themes of kindness/compromise etc?

I am wondering if I need to speak to her again tonight about it all, after my epic lecture yesterday and today. I am definitely going to get harder about her treatment of friends. She is very very immature by comparison and I cringe when I see how babyish she is around them. She invites them into our home and spends the whole fucking time telling tales on them and trying to get them into trouble. It's bloody nasty! Why would you do that? Why would you invite someone over and then terrorise them? She literally comes running to me every 5 minutes with a tale about them. The poor child just looks fed up and beaten down by the time she's done with them.
I know this sounds so harsh but I'm at my wits end and very very cross to think other adults have now noticed this and are talking about it. I feel I've failed because I let it get to the stage where I'm taken to the side and told my child is an irritant to others.

You probably won't believe this now, but my dd is actually really shy. She is like a mouse in class, quietly spoken, isn't bolshy at all. Never volunteers for anything at school or does anything that would put herself in the spotlight. So why does she do this to friends????

[Gurnie]

I think there is so much great advice here, Ohbyethen's post is really comprehensive in describing the process from start to finish and showing that it isn't just about the playdates.

ScarletFedora, I totally agree with a bit of a shock to focus her mind a bit and to show that this is becoming a real problem. It's going to be especially effective if she really loves the playdates. You need to have an action plan when you do have the playdates as ScarletFedora describes and be really, really firm about it. Also though praise her liberally when she acts kindly.

The good thing is she does sound very, very sociable, she wants to have friends and she clearly has a number of them otherwise she would not be having friends over at all. That is very positive and the other children clearly like lots about her otherwise they would not come!

[nottonightjoesphine]

Sorry, just to add, that when I've spoken to her about why she feels the need to tell tales on them, or why arguments occur, she will swear blind that she didn't tell tales (yep, she will deny that she just told 56 tales ok twenty minutes on one child) or else she will be indignant that the other child committed a crime against her and bla bla bla x

[nottonightjoesphine]

In all honesty, it's me who mostly sorts the play dates things, she is rarely invited to others. Can't even remember the last time she was invited to best friends, even though she is always around here.

Must admit though, that's another story. I'm also a sociable person and am always throwing little parties and get togethers with parents and kids, bringing children with us on day trips etc. I offer to have kids over loads and offers are always received gladly. Literally could not tell you though, the last time we were invited over, or dd was ever invited along to a day out with a kid from this area.

[stargirl1701]

Is there a chance it could be ASD?

www.senmagazine.co.uk/articles/articles/senarticles/is-autism-different-for-girls

[Gurnie]

If she lies like that, really blatantly then I'm afraid I would punish her then and there, don't engage in a conversation about it. Just say "Yes Dd you did do that, whether you are prepared to admit it or not, so now you are going to miss out on your playdates next week".

Oh, I see what you mean. Having said that I STILL don't think the other children would come if they didn't like your Dd at all. I know my Dd wouldn't go to someone's house if she didn't like them.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Funny enough, this did cross my mind. I skimmed that article and some thing stand out, such as lacking empathy for the impact of her behaviour. She just doesn't seem to notice that she annoys the hell out of people. My parents live far away and even when we visit them, she manages to fall out with local kids she has only just met:/

[PrincessBabyCat]

If she has multiple friends over, can you just separate her from them and let them watch the movie by themselves until she decides she can behave?

Also, it's best to scold in private and praise in public, even for adults. When you scold in front of people, you're putting pressure on someone to save face.

[nottonightjoesphine]

I do give her chances to avoid being told off in public. She ignores them though. For those suggesting the separate films, dd doesn't actually want to watch a separate film....she wants to control what the others watch.
To give another example, she was playing a game of scrabble last week with DP. She was showing him the 'rules' and he pointed out that she was making them up, and that actually, the way to do it was 'xxx'. She was adamant that he was wrong and carried on calmly repeating her point the rules her way. He had to walk away in the end.

[struggling100]

OP, you sound lovely and I am sure the fact that you are aware of this and making efforts to correct it will mean that it gets sorted out as a problem eventually. Six year olds can be headstrong, and I read somewhere that children aren't really developed enough to fully understand 'sharing' with others until they are 7 or 8.

I am not a parent, so I am in no position at all to offer you advice. What I would say is that I was a bossy and headstrong child myself, and I can remember my Mum repeatedly sitting me down, forcing me to be quiet and saying 'Now, we're going to think about other peoples' feelings. How would you feel if someone said this to you?' She would do this in private so I wasn't humiliated in front of my friends (feelings of social embarrassment start young) and as a result I was basically taught how to empathize with others, one step at a time. She didn't do the same for my sister (she always seemed to assume that my sister was just inherently 'nice' because she was younger and very cute) and my sister is very selfish and anti-social now as a result.

[JonesRipley]

I was also wondering about ASD

[nottonightjoesphine]

Gosh thanks so much for all the lovely lengthy posts, I'm going to take some time to read them all and wrote myself a plan of action. I won't be taking my dd's behaviour lightly, it's my responsibility to turn her into a good person x

[Ohbyethen]

Hello, sorry busy day today.
I used Julia Cook and Elizabeth Crary a lot - Cook uses explanatory stories and illustrations to get the point across. RJ is the main character that your child should be able to identify with and so as he progresses it's easy for them to see how he & the other characters achieve good results.
Crary is great for us because they are interactive books - you are presented with a scenario and choose an option to respond, each changes the outcome - a negative way of expressing yourself, like pushing a friend, doesn't get you what you want.
Also how to be a good friend and have you filled a bucket today we're ones we used.
linky
They are cuddly but I feel being a little younger was beneficial for her.
We used role play in our quality time but only once she was further along, if I started straight off I would have set her up to fail as she would have argued.
I used social stories - we started with them being based around 'I will try to x' in a few of her key flash point situations instead of 'I will' so I could praise her for trying her techniques - deep breath, ask a question, make a deal. Incorporating how she felt 'I sometimes feel this is unfair' 'It makes me cross when...' Helped as it acknowledged she felt that way and that feelings were normal but we try to express them in positive ways.
Stand in my shoes was another book - I practiced with her when she was out sometimes with observed actions, sometimes made up - how would you feel if? What would you want to happen if? What would you do if? What is the kind/fair/right thing to do? Sort of stuff.
I worked on her confidence too because she wasn't confident she was masking her insecurities with bossiness and couldn't cope with her friends not doing things her way in her house. In a way that was not as noticeable at 4 but stood out at 6. And worse for her actually as her confidence had got knocked more the further the gap widened.
I stopped any time delay with punishments too as much as I could.

Dd doesn't have an asd she was just very emotionally and socially immature so she lacked meaningful empathy and exhibited the lying behaviour expected in a child 2 or 3 years younger than she was. This did mean that the social interaction expected of her was confusing, frustrating and beyond her. I also used some materials for parents of a child with an asd because it is effective. Now she is completely average in terms of her maturity, she is not the most social of her peers but had a good circle of friends & can meet people and give a good impression.
If you do have any concerns that she may have an autism spectrum disorder then going for assessment may put your mind at rest, she says like it's the easiest thing in the world.
I did involve the senco and work with them with dd so she was supported socially at school and if she had an asd then I would probably have modulated my punishment and done more understanding work. Dd needed it though, I clung on to the fact she'd thank me one day when she reacted to a known and expected punishment as if I'd just set her bed on fire.
Did I mention she's lovely now?!
Sounds like you have lots of ideas and are forming a plan of action, I'm sure you'll crack it together, you sound exactly like who I'd want in my corner.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Thanks so much! I've really taken a lot from your recent post and this morning I've ordered 'have you filled your bucket today from amazon. It looks just like a book my dd could benefit from so that she quits with the negativity towards others and the constant sense that she is being done onto by others. I'm also going to spend this weekend talking over it all with her some more in the hope that she gets where I'm coming from.
I don't feel too confident about the idea of writing my own social stories so I'm going to research the ones you've suggested and order some instead. She has so much potential and lovely heart, but she's got herself into a cycle of negativity where she has decided what her own version of 'meanness' is among friends. Her interpretation of meanness spans as far as someone simply not wishing to do as she wants, and so she feels completely justifies in her mistreatment of them. I have to break that.

[Swisskissingisbetterthenfrench]

My boy has been on the recovering end of your DD's behaviour (not her but someone like her). The child's behaviour was control freaky, 100% bloody minded, completely forceful and manipulative. Play dates were a nightmare and my placid child hated them. One by one nobody wanted to play with the controlling child and after a while he became quite isolated. The boy became upset as kids would keep their distance. This was quite pivotal though as the boy realised he need to change and be more considerate. He's now 12 and has learnt to be more considerate of others. He's now got a nice set of friends but my son still gives him a wide birth.

[UnderIce]

My cousin's DD sounds very similar to yours OP. Our DD's were born 2 days apart so we spent quite a few early years in each other's company. Cousin's DD started to become very bossy and controlling (we used to call her "Angelica" like out of the Rug Rats) and my DD couldn't stand being around her. We distanced ourselves and heard through the grapevine that others had done as well because "Angelica" was such a pill to be with.

Fast forward and she is now almost 17 and one of the kindest, most charming young women you could hope to meet with lots of friends and a bright future ahead of her. Apparently she began to change a lot when she hit about 8/9 years old, so don't despair just yet!

[Kleinzeit]

I second the vote for The Unwritten Rules of Friendship Especially the chapters on the “Born Leader” and “Different Drummer” might chime with you. It has chapters for a wide range of friendship and social skills issues including bossiness and poor communication. My DS is a teen with a mild autism-spectrum condition and I just wish I’d bought it when he was younger!

[Edendance]

Not a huge amount to add to what others are saying but I wanted to emphasise that you need to try to not let yourself be drawn into an argument with her. Once you have said what you have needed to, and she understands, repeat the demand/choice/consequence- whatever it is and then say 'we are not talking about this any more' and walk away, to a different room if necessary. It will ensure that she does not get attention from arguing and keep the message clear.

Also when giving a choice- if there's any arguing from her, repeat the choice again and tell her if she doesn't chose then you will choose for her, and follow that through. Do not make it open to debate. Using the example of disagreements over which film to watch, say- 'guest A, you are the guest, what film would you like to watch?' If there's an argument say- 'dd, it is not your turn to choose, guest A is the guest so it's her turn' if there's more arguing then say- 'dd, you have two choices- watch guest A's film with her or watch your choice on your own, which would you like to do?' If there's more arguing then say 'are you watching guest A's film with her or your film on your own?' If there's more arguing then say 'I'm not talking about this anymore, either you choose what you're going to choose to do or Mummy will choose for you' and follow it through...

Sorry it's a bit long winded but I wanted to give you an example. Don't get drawn in to discussion on it. Stay calm and in control, be firm and consistant- you need to show her that arguing gets her nowhere.

And yes to role play, perhaps with dolls acting it out too. Perhaps look into some children's books which focus on friendships and the like, she may be able to relate to them.

[fruitmedley]

My DS1 was similar a few years ago and I bought him 'how to be a friend' (on amazon) which we read and discussed together. He's 9 now and still likes to read it sometimes.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Loving all these suggestions of books, she's a fab reader so will be happy to do that with me I think. A lot of you have hit the nail on the head with the suggestions about how to actually be a friend. She doesn't seem to have a clue. My dd isn't especially bossy - as I explained upthread, if anything she is a wallflower at school. I hate to say it, but she's more of a 'nitpicker'. She picks holes in what her friends say, what they do, what they want to do, their ideas, their opinions. She's a god awful 'picker'. She picks holes until you can see a weariness spread over the faces of her friends and at that moment, I am seething. I have no idea why she does it - we are not a negative household, but my dd is a hate the world - everyone is mean to her, everyone is picking on her.

[MyFirstName]

ANother thing to consider is to actually increase her levels of control in some areas...maybe her bossyiness/lecturing is coming from the fact she feels that what she gets - and it is how you get to be/act when you are in charge. She wants some control over her life - but has none - so is fighting to get it IYSWIM.

Maybe look at where you can give her control...bedtimes (within reason of course), the order she does stuff in the morning (teeth then dressed or dressed then teeth). What shopping you are getting. What meals will be planned. Discuss the fact you are giving her control - but she has to use it wisely. And then really try to let he do it. You may find that combined with some other approaches this "calms" her bossiness down. And try not to do "bossy" to her. Black/white lack of lecturing.

[TeenAndTween]

If you asked her 'what makes a good friend?'
and 'do you think you are a good friend?, give me examples'
how would she answer?

[Kleinzeit]

Just to be clear - Unwritten Rules is for parents to read not the kids themselves. I think of the book as a kind of whistle-stop tour through what can go wrong and things you can do to help (though you've had plenty of fine suggestions already, esp from Ohbyethen) I didn't actually think that the "Born Leader" chapter applied to my DS until I read the content, the title is maybe a bit misleading. There are also chapters on shyness and on negativity. Other kids might experience her behaviour as bossiness even if that's not her real motivation.

The rigidity and nitpicking and "rules police" can also be autism-spectrum. Especially when he's nervous my DS can nitpick for Britain Though my DS isn't shy, he's outgoing, and he once tried to make a playground of 400 kids play according to his rules - you can imagine how well that went (shudder). (Not saying your DD has an ASC, just that some kids genuinely have no clue!) One benefit of a diagnosis was that it got my DS attendance at "social/communication skills" therapy group, where a small group of kids all learned together to manage these really basic social things. And they explored the issues between themselves, with the therapist's help, which was also a good way to learn.

Good luck, seems you're really on the ball for your DD!

[nottonightjoesphine]

Ah ok I thought that book was for dd - its fine that it's just for me though. I could do with learning more about what drives these behaviours.
If I asked her what makes a good friend, she would say all the right things....but does the opposite of what she says!

[Ohbyethen]

And therein lies the key to the seethe! Because I used to think 'you bloody well know it, now stop fgs'.

There really was a disconnect between what should happen and what she could do while she was feeling her righteous indignation or was upset. Teaching her that the rules still apply when we feel bad was fairly key and then really helping her to express herself or find a way to stop escalating a situation that really was entirely in her own head (friends usually battered and bemused) was a bit of a work in progress for a while. I found it difficult to try and teach 'it's not always about you' - I.e people were making choices for lots of reasons but none of them were to maliciously get one over on her and the world is not one big injustice centered on her- without accidentally implying 'because you're not important'. I leant heavily on books and using the other person's perspective.
She is by nature more pessimistic than optimistic but I'm so glad I built her confidence instead of tried to knock her back a bit (thanks mum!) Raising her confidence to deal with things and her self esteem (the message she wasn't liked and therefore wasn't a nice person got through loud and clear. My heart broke tbh) has really made such a difference to that.

Age is your greatest friend here but everything you're doing is the groundwork and maturity helps it click into place.
Is she supported at school with friendship groups or nurture groups etc? Having school on board (with a helpful senco and class teacher) really helped us both.