Help me to make my dd kinder to her friends?

[nottonightjoesphine]

Sorry for posting here. I feel really upset. My dd (6) is an only child. She has a pretty fractious relationship with her 'best' friend' in that she is very intense with her, doesn't give her a lot of space and friend inevitably gets frustrated with my dd. Friend recently had a playdate at ours and my dd did her head in, I watched it with my own eyes.

I am not one of these parents who can't see my child's faults and more than ever I am seeing that my dd argues the toss with her friends constantly. If she has a play date at our house with them, she bosses them around, won't share her toys, and if they say black, she will say white. The latter point is excruciating to witness in itself and I can't help getting involved and telling dd off when I see it. A typical example will be, she will have three friends over....and they watch to watch film A. Before it even happens, I just know dd is going to say she wants to watch film B. She couldn't give a flying fuck that she's in the minority and will sit there arguing and arguing to have the opposite of whatever everyone else has agreed on. She argues about rules in a game, who's playing what role etc. Sometimes, i'm so aghast at her behaviour that I feel like crying because I just know their tolerance of her will not last. There are occasions where she is arguing against the most ridiculous of things, like she wanted a video clip on you tube to start from a very specific part of the song, and not at the beginning, so she makes everyone miss out on that part. She had a sleepover a few weeks ago and they were singing along to a song from a film and she was moaning at them to stop singing as she wanted to hear it. I am just constantly telling her off when friends are over because she only behaves like this around them. When I am telling her off in front of them (which I don't want to do), she answers me back, and I always end up so incensed that I want to cancel the date/sleepover but never feel that I can because of the other kids sitting there in the middle of a film or whatever.
Play dates are rarely reciprocated but always gladly accepted. I can't work out if this is just the area I live in (lots of takers) or if it's just that the kids don't want my dd around at their house because of her behaviour.

One of the biggest blows to me recently was that her after school club leader told me that she irritates the other children a lot, because she goes out of her way to argue about the rules of a game or whatever. This caused me to go home and cry. Literally.

What can I do? We don't behave like this in our home, we are kind to each other, we are patient, we take turns. I don't know where I have wrong and I'm so sad about it.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

My DD was like this at 5 with her friends. We have a rule in this house 'the guests get to choose' failure to observe the rule results in immediate public scolding and if necessary a request to go to your room to consider your behaviour whilst your friends watch/sing/play with what they like. She only needed to be sent to her room twice, now she is 10 I delight to hear her say on play dates "X what would you like to do" would you like to go and okay with the sylvanians".

[nottonightjoesphine]

I do think she lacks confidence massively. She's a mouse in the classroom, but a monster on the playground. She's not outwardly bossy, she isn't loud, she doesn't draw attention to herself. It's bizarre...all of her behaviours are almost 'on the quiet'. She doesn't want to be told off by teachers and really looks up to them, yes.
I'm definitely trying the social stories, the reading, and the contract before play times. I'm also going to praise her more when I see her being a good friend. I know in my heart she is more immature than her friends and I need to help her her handle that.

[revolutionarytoad]

Don't panic OP! She'll mature and adapt, she's only young.

However it would be a good idea to get her to learn the ideal way to react in different situations. Sometimes a kid needs to actively be taught it instead of relied on just to absorb them as behaviours from peers or their environment. Have you thought about using social stories?


Sorry if that sounds totally obvious. When I was a kid I remember being so confused sometimes when people reacted unexpectedly to me....having someone sit me down and explain the situation to me would have been a comfort and a big help. People just tended to assume that I knew and was wilfully ignoring what I knew about the right way to handle things. I just wasn't very perceptive in some ways, or was immature for my age.

[Galvanised]

My child has asd which might not be relevant at all here, but one of the features of his playing is that he likes/needs to be in control.
This is apparently often linked to anxiety. If the child feels anxious, then there is a need to control the situation, to minimise the anxiety.
I wonder if this could be at all relevant to your daughter's scenario.
My sympathies btw.

[QueenBean]

OP, I don't have anything very useful to say but that you sound like a lovely mother and definitely the right thing to help your daughter out now.

I was quite a lot like this when I was a child. Would be nit picking, force friends in to doing activities, would say mean things in a "jokey" way. The real reason was a complete lack of confidence. Even as a child I didn't feel very pretty (was a bit geeky, felt that I wasn't in the popular group etc) and as a result tried to be bigger, bolder, more outgoing, bossier to try and prove that i did have something about me. This may be what your daughter is doing, especially if she's very shy at school, in a way she's projecting the outgoing person she'd like to be all the time to people who she knows will tolerate it. Does she feel like she's the leader of the pack? Honestly, I wanted to be like that at school but would never have wanted to be told off by teachers so I was a bit of a goody two shoes but at home it was a different story.

For me, it was when I decided I didn't really "like" one of my friends so just stopped speaking to her, and the whole group sided with her because I was being so unreasonable so for about 3 days (which is a life time when you're that age!) no one spoke to me. That was a kick up the bum, I started to realise that I couldn't behave like that. I channeled all of that energy in to being nice to people instead, doing activities with friends and realised how much nicer people reacted to me if I was generous with making decisions. Your daughter may not yet realise that.

You're lovely to try and nip it in the bud now, and if not, something else will happen to make her realise it, it may just be an unpleasant journey for a while. Oh, and fwiw, I have turned out to be very nice with a wide group of friends! (I hope!!)

[nottonightjoesphine]

I think I'm going to make an appointment to see her teacher and ask her what the situation is with friendships. She's hinted at some difficulties in the last parents evening but was at pains to point out that all the girls were as bad as each other in her opinion. Looking back now I'm not sure she wasn't trying to spare my feelings

[MammaTJ]

My own DD is a bossy little madam. I know she likes to control everyone.

She hasn't got many friends.

I had a word with the school support worker and she has been working with her around friendships and what is and isn't acceptable.

She is a work in progress but has improved somewhat. She goes to Middle school in September and the teacher thinks that with a new pool of children, she may actually find some who can tolerate her, where the ones she is with now have known her since reception and remember when her behaviour was awful!

Is there someone in the school like that? Someone who could work with your DD and try to teach her the way to behave?

Of course I try to guide her as well.

[nottonightjoesphine]

I've honestly had so much support from this thread, it's amazing! I love love the idea of writing out a contract for my dd before she has friends over- it's so simply (can't believe I didn't think of that!). I think it will massively help her focus on what's important in a play date. Also, thanks for the links to books, feel SO much better! ??

[woollybobs]

Nothing to add as I think other have some great idea for you. But just wanted to say you sound like a great mum. Who can see your childs weaknesses and are seeking help instead of thats just her, attitude I hear off many parents to excuse bad behaviour.
Keep strong and positive I am sure things will turn around.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

If this link here works, it should be a list of 'help me be good' books which I'd recommend for your DD to read. There are many types of behaviours these books cover and are pitched just right for your DD's age. I came across them when I was looking for books about telling lies for my DD and she loves reading them. They really helped her understand why some behaviours aren't acceptable.

[CrabbyBlossomBottom]

You've had some great advice on this thread and I haven't got much to add to that.

Just wanted to say that your description of your DD did resonate a lot with me in terms of how my DD was when she was younger. The need to control people and social interactions, the wanting everything to be done her way, not reading the signals that she was annoying or upsetting people, all of that was very evident in DD, although she wasn't as extreme as you're describing. She was (and still can be) defensive too, and assumes that people are deliberately hurting her if she feels slighted. When she was at school (I took her out to home ed her when she was 8) she very frequently got into arguments with people and often came out of school full of anger and a burning sense of injustice - it was everyone's fault but hers! She's also got an answer for everything and will argue, debate, argue, negotiate, argue and argue again. And always wants to have the last word. Quite often I warn her repeatedly that the answering back is making me angry, but she can't seem to stop herself - she's much better now than she used to be. She's also very, very resistant to new ideas and suggestions. I often have to force her to do things because I know that she'll enjoy them (and she does). Her initial response to a suggestion or request is usually negative (which is a fun challenge with home ed ) and it's because she's scared to try new things and she wants to keep control.

Last year, after going back and forth in my head about it for years, I asked for a referral to have her assessed for Aspergers, and she has now been diagnosed. Aspergers can present very differently in girls. I recommend this book if how I've described DD rings any bells with you. It's a big book but you could order it from your library maybe?

In the last couple of years DD has come on in leaps and bounds socially. I think having to rub along with so many kids every day was really stressful for her and it was overwhelming her. As she's matured and been able to socialise in smaller chunks and smaller groups, she's better at reading the signals and not wanting to be in charge all the time. She's got a really lovely group of friends (a couple of girls and the rest boys) and although she's still a bit bossy (especially with the girls), i don't now cringe when I observe her with other children. It does get better, honest.

[SE13Mummy]

Your DD's behaviour with friends makes me wonder if she's trying to be more like the more confident children in class e.g. by arguing the toss, being the 'leader' etc. so she's trying it out with/showing off to people she wants to like her e.g. friends, older children at the after school club etc.?

She's definitely old enough to learn the ingredients of a good friend, it might be worth looking at some of the activities in the old SEAL programme, particularly the relationships, getting on and falling out and the good to be me sections. There are lots of children's books available about girls' friendships, bossiness and bullying e.g. Friends: making them and keeping them, How to make and keep friends.

Definitely speak to your DD's teacher and ask about her relationships in class, how much control your DD has over who she sits with, what strategies the teacher uses to encourage appropriate interactions. As others have said, involving the SENCo may be a good idea whether to set up a 'circle of friends', to have your DD included in a social skills group or because you suspect that she needs to be assessed for ASD.

Meanwhile, every time you arrange a playdate for your DD, ensure there is time for the two of you to draw up a contract that she will stick to. Encourage her to think of things she will do rather than things she won't e.g. I will let my visitor choose which DVD we watch, I will try to only say my ideas once, I will only come to tell Mummy about things that go wrong if my visitor or I have been injured, I will speak to my visitor with my gentle words/voice. That way, she has something concrete to work towards, a visual reminder of what those things are and you will hopefully have lots of opportunities for noticing her efforts, "Ooh DD, it's lovely to hear you and X using kind words". Instead of having 2 or 3 friends over, I'd be inclined to have one at a time, perhaps for a shorter time so that the occasion has a greater chance of being successful and so that you can hover, ready to model being a good friend if either child is overwhelmed. Planning an independent activity that the girls can do in parallel might work e.g. decorating biscuits/cakes/paper masks/small craft thing so each can make her own decisions about what to do, your DD may feel less need to be in charge if the activity doesn't require overt cooperation and you can model lots of friendly phrases, "Those spirals on your biscuit are lovely and swirly X...DD, what zigzaggy zig-zags!"

Cheesy it may be, but at the end of a 1 hour playdate you and your DD could each complete a speech/thought bubble about one 'good friend' thing that happened e.g. "DD was kind to X by offering to share when X's pink icing ran out" or "I tried really hard to smile when X chose the biscuit I really want to decorate next". Pop the bubbles into a scrapbook/notebook of some sort and add to it every time she has a friend over.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Thanks gurnie (and everyone) I feel like I should say that my dd is a beautiful little soul when she's at home just snuggled up with me. She is kind to her grandma, her pets, DP. She is shy and very dependent on me in so many ways and (I'm biased now) but hilariously funny and so so pretty. I feel the need to say that because I've been so negative about her on this thread, but she is my entire world, and I firmly believe that it's my job to relieve her of these behaviours she has developed around other people.

[Gurnie]

I have to say though noton you have a very objective and honest approach to your Dds' behaviour and I really do think that is admirable. Many, many parents I've worked with (and known through friends of my Dd) are in complete denial about the way their kids behave and that lack of awareness makes it very difficult or impossible even for them to help their children. You are the opposite of that and I really do think you can turn your DD's behaviour around with these strategies.......I also think she may well outgrow this behaviour.

[whatever5]

I haven't really got any good advice but wanted to say that my youngest dd wasn't very good at getting on with other children when she was 6. In the end she worked out herself that other children would like her more and she would have more friends if she was nice and didn't pick arguments. She is 10 now and is lovely to children her own age and is popular (she saves her not so nice side for when she gets home).

[nottonightjoesphine]

That should say pre-emptive strikes (not emotive!)

[nottonightjoesphine]

Thanks everyone! I really feel like I can get a handle on it with all these suggestions. I love the sound of that book about grumbling- because as ohbythen says, my dd feels like the whole world is out to get her and so she handles that by making what I feel are pre-emotive strikes. Her interpretation of someone being mean to her is the most amusing (aka irritating) of them all, eh of a child is in the middle of having their turn of a game and won't 'hurry up', this, in dd's world, is them being 'mean' to her. If they don't want to do what she wants....that's also mean. If they don't agree with her on something ....yep, s/he is a meany. It's exhausting because her thinking is so warped on this one and I felt so powerless to change it. My feelings were that dd gives herself permission to treat people like crap because she has decided they were mean to her.

[OddFodd]

One that you can do with her is What To Do When You Grumble Too Much which is a CBT workbook for children with negativity issues. It's been brilliant with my DS and he's really enjoyed doing it

[Ohbyethen]

And therein lies the key to the seethe! Because I used to think 'you bloody well know it, now stop fgs'.

There really was a disconnect between what should happen and what she could do while she was feeling her righteous indignation or was upset. Teaching her that the rules still apply when we feel bad was fairly key and then really helping her to express herself or find a way to stop escalating a situation that really was entirely in her own head (friends usually battered and bemused) was a bit of a work in progress for a while. I found it difficult to try and teach 'it's not always about you' - I.e people were making choices for lots of reasons but none of them were to maliciously get one over on her and the world is not one big injustice centered on her- without accidentally implying 'because you're not important'. I leant heavily on books and using the other person's perspective.
She is by nature more pessimistic than optimistic but I'm so glad I built her confidence instead of tried to knock her back a bit (thanks mum!) Raising her confidence to deal with things and her self esteem (the message she wasn't liked and therefore wasn't a nice person got through loud and clear. My heart broke tbh) has really made such a difference to that.

Age is your greatest friend here but everything you're doing is the groundwork and maturity helps it click into place.
Is she supported at school with friendship groups or nurture groups etc? Having school on board (with a helpful senco and class teacher) really helped us both.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Ah ok I thought that book was for dd - its fine that it's just for me though. I could do with learning more about what drives these behaviours.
If I asked her what makes a good friend, she would say all the right things....but does the opposite of what she says!

[Kleinzeit]

Just to be clear - Unwritten Rules is for parents to read not the kids themselves. I think of the book as a kind of whistle-stop tour through what can go wrong and things you can do to help (though you've had plenty of fine suggestions already, esp from Ohbyethen) I didn't actually think that the "Born Leader" chapter applied to my DS until I read the content, the title is maybe a bit misleading. There are also chapters on shyness and on negativity. Other kids might experience her behaviour as bossiness even if that's not her real motivation.

The rigidity and nitpicking and "rules police" can also be autism-spectrum. Especially when he's nervous my DS can nitpick for Britain Though my DS isn't shy, he's outgoing, and he once tried to make a playground of 400 kids play according to his rules - you can imagine how well that went (shudder). (Not saying your DD has an ASC, just that some kids genuinely have no clue!) One benefit of a diagnosis was that it got my DS attendance at "social/communication skills" therapy group, where a small group of kids all learned together to manage these really basic social things. And they explored the issues between themselves, with the therapist's help, which was also a good way to learn.

Good luck, seems you're really on the ball for your DD!

[TeenAndTween]

If you asked her 'what makes a good friend?'
and 'do you think you are a good friend?, give me examples'
how would she answer?

[MyFirstName]

ANother thing to consider is to actually increase her levels of control in some areas...maybe her bossyiness/lecturing is coming from the fact she feels that what she gets - and it is how you get to be/act when you are in charge. She wants some control over her life - but has none - so is fighting to get it IYSWIM.

Maybe look at where you can give her control...bedtimes (within reason of course), the order she does stuff in the morning (teeth then dressed or dressed then teeth). What shopping you are getting. What meals will be planned. Discuss the fact you are giving her control - but she has to use it wisely. And then really try to let he do it. You may find that combined with some other approaches this "calms" her bossiness down. And try not to do "bossy" to her. Black/white lack of lecturing.

[nottonightjoesphine]

Loving all these suggestions of books, she's a fab reader so will be happy to do that with me I think. A lot of you have hit the nail on the head with the suggestions about how to actually be a friend. She doesn't seem to have a clue. My dd isn't especially bossy - as I explained upthread, if anything she is a wallflower at school. I hate to say it, but she's more of a 'nitpicker'. She picks holes in what her friends say, what they do, what they want to do, their ideas, their opinions. She's a god awful 'picker'. She picks holes until you can see a weariness spread over the faces of her friends and at that moment, I am seething. I have no idea why she does it - we are not a negative household, but my dd is a hate the world - everyone is mean to her, everyone is picking on her.