To think education is a privilege and removing a child from that without damn good reason is shocking?

[MBT1987]

So, in the latest episode of "Why am I being fined for breaking the law?" AKA "Yet Another Unauthorised Absence", we've had:

"I'm going to tell my kids to lie"
"I'd vote Labour if they abolished compulsory education" (Fun fact - the Education Act 2006 was passed under Labour)
"My children with both parents are disadvantaged as opposed to single-parent families!"
"What are they really going to do if I break the law and don't accept the fine?" (Hint - prosecute)
"My school are lovely, so they won't mind" (Then ask in advance?)

I could go on.

There are some absolute howlers coming from this place, and it's sickening. Parents are encouraging kids to play truant and lie about it.

I don't care if I become Social Pariah of the Week as a result of this. I'll just have to be lonely on my little patch of moral high ground. Anyone is welcome to join me.

[HanSolo]

Funny- many parents don't actually have the wherewithal to provide a stimulating environment in their own homes, let alone globetrotting.

Those children are the ones that suffer when they miss school, and trust me there a re a lot of them out there.

[SaucyJack]

SaucyJack didn't school teach you how to read and write? The very fact that you could write anything on an A4 sheet of paper proves that school was effective.

Yes, as a whole my education was successful over the 12 year period.

However, I seriously seriously doubt any one single week's education would've been missed in the grand scheme.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

My kids I'll just pay the fine, in pennies, with a fuck you!

[Retropear]

Well sorry Hans I don't see why the maj should be penalised for a minority- again.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Blimey OP, no wonder A&E is bursting at the seams and struggling to cope!

[maggiemight]

I pay taxes which pay for the education of many of the country's DCs. I then have to pay benefit to those not educated adequately to get a job due to whatever reasons. That is a pia.

[Argawarga]

I've been thinking of the kids I've taught over the years, and the vast majority of the ones pulled out for holidays have not done so well academically. Far worse are ones removed to go shopping or because it's their birthday; the contempt for education is plain in those cases.

[HanSolo]

LEM- how on earth are my children missing out by not having a week in the pouring rain in a caravan?

We spend time together as a family in places around where we live. Sometimes we camp a couple on nights if DH can get time off work. My children are happy and fulfilled.

[MBT1987]

LEMmingaround - if your DD was off with flu, you rang the school, and they said "OK, that's fine" then that's an AUTHORISED absence! I'm not railing against authorised absence - I'm railing against "Oh, my DD is off with Munchausen-CenterParcs Syndrome".

If there was an unauthorised absence after you phoned the school, you'd need to provide proof that it was a genuine absence in order to overturn the fine. This could come in the form of a medical certificate if the child was ill.

Oh, and I'm fairly certain it's "supercilious". Also, not unjustified - I've never broken the law.

[HanSolo]

Really maggie. You educate many do you? How much in tax a year would that be you're paying then, because a state school place is about £12k a year to provide on average. Assuming a salary of £120k that only pays for 4 children p.a.

[Downtheroadfirstonleft]

Taking kids out of school for a "normal" beach holiday, just because it is cheaper, seems a staggeringly wrong set of priorities, part of the "I want it and I want it now" culture. Poor kids.

[maggiemight]

I don't pay to educate public school kids.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Honeysweet parents who home educate their child/ren at home are required to register them as such with the local council. They can also be subject to Ofsted inspections

not true. When you deregister a child the school is obliged to inform the LA of the deregistration.YOU are not required to do anything at all,and you are also under no obligation to be inspected by anybody,ofstead have almost no intrest in home education any inspections would be done by an EWO and you still don't have to let them.

The only circumstances that you are obliged to inform anybody other than the head of the school you are removing them from are a involving statemented children and 2 other reasons I cannot remember right now.

There is also no requirement to te education you provide to be approved.

[HanSolo]

argawarga has it. It's the attitude that parents acting in the manner display that is the real problem. Teaching their children from a young age to have contempt for authority, that rules don't apply to them, that school is only important if mummy wants you to go that day.

This is why the fee-paying sector outstrips the state sector. Parents that are paying through the nose make damn sure little Algernon gets to school each morning, because they want their money's worth! That, and the fact that independent schools will offer your place to someone else should you have more than a minimum of term-time absences.

[cory]

"cory - if there was a pre-existing condition, your doctor can write a letter to this effect, which your school will keep on file and rely on each time that flags up. The same thing happened to me at university, and my doctor pinged a letter off the very day I asked him, free of charge, which the university were happy to rely on in order to accommodate my hospital trips, health requirements, and any extended absences."

Ah but universities are not hounded by the EWO or Ofsted; they can afford to be more understanding- in fact we have to be so as not to lose students. We are not schools, thankfully.

When dd was ill, we did provide such letters- dozens of them from various specialists who had seen dd- the HT still suspected us of lying on every separate occasion.

In the end the paed went into the school to explain how dd was affected by her condition; the only question asked by the school by the meeting was "how can we know that she's really in pain", in other words "how can we know she's not lying on any one occasion".

"If your child is "seriously ill", get to A&E. If they're not ill enough to bother with A&E, they're not seriously ill."

Really? Cancer? Marfan's syndrome? Various heart conditions? Do you think these do not affect children? Plenty of things that are much better picked up before you get to the A&E stage and which can only picked up if the doctor has the time to look at faintly worrying but not yet urgent symptoms.

[LEMmingaround]

Who said anything about a week in the pouring rain in a caravan? i also said that your children are missing out on a holiday - not that they aren't happy and fulfilled - my DD doesn't get a holiday every year, in fact we haven't had one for nearly three years, we may get one this year (if i go on a sun holiday) we may not. My DD talks about her holidays (she has had two) with great fondness - I would hate for her not to have those memories because someone decided that particular week at school was more important. Luckily our holidays were basked in sunshine - even though we were on the south coast of the uk.

I can see that taking your child out of school all the time is bad - no one is saying it isn't. Its about COMMON SENSE!!

I actually live in a popular seaside destination and we spend half the summer holiday on the beach, its fantastic, but it is NOT the same as being ON holiday, it just isn't - i wish it was.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

I don't think that education is something which can only be obtained in school. In fact, having found huge holes in my own education which I have set about filling as an adult on my own, I would say that the education delivered by schools is limited and designed to meet a fairly narrow set of requirements.

It annoys me to see all parents and family circumstances lumped under the "feckless suntan seekers" label. I think that a parent should be able to explain why the absence is either essential or educational and each case judged on it's own merits and on the family's previous record of absences.

Our local radio station recently had a magistrate on talking about a family that were prosecuted for not paying their fine. They took their only DC to a family reunion in Jamaica, to meet her 80yo grandfather and the rest of her extended family. The father arranged for his DC to spend time in a local Jamaican school, to see how it was different and meet local children. Sounds educational to me - in fact it sounds rather like an exchange trip which children are positively encouraged to go on by schools. The magistrate said that the panel had sympathy with the family and although they had to convict them as the crime had been committed, they chose not to impose a fine. What a waste of time and effort.

[HanSolo]

maggie no- £12k is the average cost of a STATE place. Do you have any idea how much a place in a special school costs p.a. for example?

[cory]

I should add that the school was totally impartial: they behaved the same way to the child with cystic fibrosis who was not expected to live until adulthood.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I'm sure I heard a figure of 6k the other day Hans?
(12 sounds quite high ?)

[NoodleOodle]

IMO education is important, school isn't.

[Rooners]

I have not read all this - just the OP - but the thing I do have an issue with regarding the new law is that it protects the wealthy and impacts heavily on the poorer families who can't afford holiday time prices.

Another stonker from the egalitarian tories then

[ShadowOfTheDay]

The government are going about it all the wrong way - now if instead of fines they took off UCAS points for unauthorised absence .....

[HicDraconis]

Either you agree to play by the rules (and accept a fine for term time holidays) or you don't - and then you withdraw your children from school and home educate them. As many holidays as you want whenever you want.

What is irritating is people who want the state to educate their child but then still want to go on holiday whenever they please - cake and eating it.

We home educated for a while - boys asked to go back to school as they missed the social aspect. So now we are bound by term dates and holidays aren't going to happen as I am not allowed leave in school holidays this year. We'll do long (bank holiday) camping weekends instead. And we don't get fined for term time absences! (not uk).

[Rooners]

and fwiw I have never had a foreign family holiday in my life. And don't really want one. And I don't believe aeroplanes can really stay up. The sky is a big bit of cloth.