To think education is a privilege and removing a child from that without damn good reason is shocking?

[MBT1987]

So, in the latest episode of "Why am I being fined for breaking the law?" AKA "Yet Another Unauthorised Absence", we've had:

"I'm going to tell my kids to lie"
"I'd vote Labour if they abolished compulsory education" (Fun fact - the Education Act 2006 was passed under Labour)
"My children with both parents are disadvantaged as opposed to single-parent families!"
"What are they really going to do if I break the law and don't accept the fine?" (Hint - prosecute)
"My school are lovely, so they won't mind" (Then ask in advance?)

I could go on.

There are some absolute howlers coming from this place, and it's sickening. Parents are encouraging kids to play truant and lie about it.

I don't care if I become Social Pariah of the Week as a result of this. I'll just have to be lonely on my little patch of moral high ground. Anyone is welcome to join me.

[LEMmingaround]

Do these rules apply to private school as well?

[MBT1987]

LEMmingaround - that would be exactly what I'd suggest if it was required. If you ring the school up and say "DD is ill with the flu/fever" and they give you authorisation, then that is an authorised absence due to illness. If they don't give you authorisation without a medical note, then that is an unauthorised absence.

A child's school days are far more than times tables and GCSEs - these are formative years. Social life, constructs for morality, demonstrating capacity to learn, soft skills, and vital constructs like learning to read and write. Just because there's no exam boards involved, doesn't mean there's no point in them being in school.

I made this post in response to the near-constant barrage of publicity being given to unauthorised absences, as well as providing the correct spelling of the word "privilege". Both of these points seem to have been ignored by the vast majority of people who are perfectly willing to admit to breaking the law.

Again, breaking the law! I can't stress this point any more without posting Judas Priest songs. Which I'm happy to do, but I get the feeling even that may whoosh over some heads here.

[LEMmingaround]

crusty - thts a good point, i have never seen the point of excluding or suspending children from school - how is that helping? Most of the children who get suspended would think it was great

[Sallystyle]

I agree.

Three of mine have had missed some time off recently for their dads death and funeral. They have to miss another day soon due to burying his ashes and then another to scatter the rest. They have been fantastic about it thankfully, I was worried that they would kick up a fuss or fine me but so far they haven't.

This is the only kind of reason why I would pull mine out of school.

[echt]

I asked this on the other thread. Apparently so. It was pointed out that private schools can give you the shove if you take too much time off. This is true but they get much longer holidays anyway and can take advantage of cheaper deals.

[Retropear]

The law is a crock and wrong.

[Kippersbigfeet]

I have three friends all in the police force. they have their holidays allocated to them. Only two of them were offered any holidays at the same time as school holidays in July. They have now been told all July holidays are cancelled due to the commonwealth games - this also happened during the olympics. There is no guarantee replacement time off will be when their kids are off so they will be taking their kids out of school at somepoint and I don't blame them.

[HanSolo]

Education is a RIGHT not a privilege.

No-one has any excuse to take a child out of school in term time except for funerals, hospital/medical appointments.

If you cannot afford something, you cannot afford it, and you go without.
We haven't had a holiday for over 5 years now, but I woulf never take my children away in term-time.

[Retropear]

Great Hans,I on the other hand would.

[SpinDoctorofAethelred]

Go get yourself a sheet of A4. If you can manage to fill both sides of it with stuff you remember from your 12 years of formal schooling then I'll agree with you.

I can manage that with one year of formal schooling in five GCSE subjects, and 2 years of formal schooling for 4 A-levels...

[cory]

MBT1987 Fri 07-Feb-14 18:28:35
"LEMmingaround - that would be exactly what I'd suggest if it was required. If you ring the school up and say "DD is ill with the flu/fever" and they give you authorisation, then that is an authorised absence due to illness. If they don't give you authorisation without a medical note, then that is an unauthorised absence."

So how would you react if you couldn't get an appointmet for your seriously ill child because the GP was spending all his time seeing children with ordinary throat viruses and stomach bugs of the kind that get better of themselves?

And how would you feel if you were a cancer patient with a compromised immune system and every child with vomiting sickness had to go and sit in the doctor's surgery?

Or if the doctor just said when you rang up "look here, mrscory, I have seen your dd three times this month, she has a known condition, we both know I can't do anything for her, stop wasting my time" and you then got fined for unauthorised absences?

I have been in this situation- thankfully before fines came in.

This idea with medical notes is crap. We would need to expand the NHS exponentially if a doctor had to see every child with a bug.

[LEMmingaround]

Could you be any more superscillious do you think, op??

Why would i need a doctors certificate for flu? if its going to be treated the same as adult work then it would be self certification up to seven days anyway - yes, OP, that could work :)

My DD has had less than a total of two weeks off school (apart from snow days!) including a week off for a holiday since she started school - she is in year 4. I am not one of those parents who keeps their child off school if they sneeze, she likes school and wants to go.

"A child's school days are far more than times tables and GCSEs - these are formative years. Social life, constructs for morality, demonstrating capacity to learn, soft skills, and vital constructs like learning to read and write. Just because there's no exam boards involved, doesn't mean there's no point in them being in school." Oh and you are right about that too - if i couldn't give those things to my child outside of school, i would despair of my parenting skills. A week off school is not going to turn my DD into an amoral sociopath. If i took her out of school completely, then yes, she would miss out - i am talking about a WEEK!! a week - can you not understand this?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I think going on holiday/travelling is usually very educational for children - even your few days in a caravan park LEM, certainly the week in Spain that OP brought up.

I think many people, including some schools, LEA's, Ofsted, and government, have very little imagination - or frankly knowledge - about how children learn.

As Tine Bruce (early years expert) said in the early years especially they learn through taking part in "stimulating first-hand experiences and making these their own through free-flow play"

[maggiemight]

I never took my kids out of school unless v ill, which was rare, but others did, and then, surprise, surprise, they didn't work at uni/ couldn't keep a job because they were constantly late/ couldn't even find a job they were willing to do/ were always whingeing about something that wasn't their fault. My DCs all have good jobs and work hard (no skiving) and are struggling onto the housing ladder whilst others bleat about how unfair life is so meh to those who skive off.

[BeeInYourBonnet]

I refuse to accept that taking my infant school aged DD out of school for the last 2 days of the summer term did her any harm at all. It saved us approx £350, therefore allowing us to go on a lovely holiday we would otherwise not been able to afford.

You need to chill out OP. If rules are silly, people will respond to them in silly ways (ie pretending dcs are ill).

[HanSolo]

Well retro- I see the effect that children's absence has on their education day in, day out, so I wouldn't because it is detrimental in 98% of cases.

[crustyclown]

Yes, education is a right but schools can, and do, deny children an education if they so choose.It is hypocritical to then lecture parents on how much harm is caused by children being absent for a family holiday.
If I requested a fine from school for all the sessions my child was denied education (in just a year) they would owe me over £9000 .

[Retropear]

Funny my parents took us off travelling every year and my sister and I both have degrees.I had a teaching career and she is at the top of her field(has managed to work in a challenging job,study,write two books and raise twins all at the same time).

So meh.

[Pagwatch]

I'm pretty sure we are taking DS out for a day to go to a rugby match in Paris.

It's going to be great

[Retropear]

Funny as a teacher Hans I didn't.

Continual truanting yes but a week off in July no.

[LEMmingaround]

"If you cannot afford something, you cannot afford it, and you go without.
We haven't had a holiday for over 5 years now, but I woulf never take my children away in term-time." Thats a shame - your children are missing out. We rarely go on holiday, but hope to this year - it might not happen, we may not be able to afford it, term time or not, but it IS a valuable time - we only go to haven type places but DD loves it. Not very culturally enriching but thats whats school for, innit. There are children who miss much much more time due to illness than a week - it would be really crap to think that those children's education is going to be destroyed because they have got sick during term time - but of course, that would be ridiculous!

[cory]

I would never personally take my children out for anything other than illness/similar.

But I refuse to accept that my A at Latin O-level (a subject not taught by my school) and my relative fluency in English do not represent any educational value. Particularly as those are the two skills which pay our weekly food bill.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Also even if two things co-exist doesn't mean there is a causal relationship between them. Just saying

[MBT1987]

cory - if there was a pre-existing condition, your doctor can write a letter to this effect, which your school will keep on file and rely on each time that flags up. The same thing happened to me at university, and my doctor pinged a letter off the very day I asked him, free of charge, which the university were happy to rely on in order to accommodate my hospital trips, health requirements, and any extended absences.

If the school are alright with it when you ring them (which for the most part, they should be, unless you're prolific with it) then you're fine. However, if the kids start talking about how great their holiday was within earshot of anyone (kids, other parents, teachers), you're in trouble, and should pay the fine without a fight. There's nothing to fear if your kids are actually off for illness.

If your child is "seriously ill", get to A&E. If they're not ill enough to bother with A&E, they're not seriously ill.

[maggiemight]

I refuse to accept that taking my infant school aged DD out of school for the last 2 days of the summer term did her any harm at all

Kids are so excited at the end of term, and want to say bye to friends. Imo DD missed out, not educationally but socially.