to think the loss of my mum at 85 was tragic

[highho1]

Sorry this is a bit of a thread about a thread but it has got to me.
My mum died following a fall at 85. She may have only has a few more years left if she hadn't had the fall.
But at least than she would have possibly met her final grandchild. (My 3rd dd)
Aibu to think the loss of a older person can still be tragic.

I think the manner of death (ie, accident, violent death, negligence) can be tragic at any age. But the mere fact of dying from natural illness at the age of 85, I don't think is tragic.

I'm sorry for your loss OP.

But no, I don't think an older persons death is tragic. Terribly sad for you and your family though.

I think you should have just posted on the other thread Op.
Exactly the same debate going on.

I'm sorry for your loss, OP. My parents have both died and I miss them every day.

There are two questions really, one about how sad you feel and one about the language you use to describe it. How sad you feel, how much of a loss your mum is to you, is entirely personal and for nobody else to judge or compare or minimise.

But words are supposed to mean things, and speaking purely on the language issue, I do find that words like "tragedy" get cheapened and become meaningless when they're used to describe events that "very sad" would do for.

I would describe the death of an elderly person by natural causes or accident related to age as "very sad", the death of a child or teenager as "devastating" and certainly a personal tragedy for the individual and his/her family, and the death of many people in a violent atrocity or a large-scale natural disaster, as "a tragedy."

If the death of anyone, at any age and from any cause is considered "a tragedy", then it becomes about things being more tragic or less tragic or beyond tragic. What's the point of that? Tragedy isn't the only word.

I must say I also think that the death of someone elderly, who has lived a full life, is difficult to think of as "tragic". OP, my grandfather died suddenly after falling off a roof. He was 79. It was very shocking, and I wished he'd died in his sleep, or something. But (to me) it wasn't a tragedy, in the sense that a child dying in the same way would be.

Sorry, to clarify, he didn't die because he fell. He had an attack and died on the roof, then fell.

I totally agree with you lostmummysgirl (and can relate personally to your circumstances).

"I think the manner of death (ie, accident, violent death, negligence) can be tragic at any age. But the mere fact of dying from natural illness at the age of 85, I don't think is tragic."

I agree with ThisLittle about the overuse of the word "tragic" as though it was the only word that could be used to describe something sad or awful.

However, I agree that the manner of death matters - a death by violence, murder, car accident, medical negligence (or whatever) is just as awful no matter what the age of a the person who dies.

It's not at all OK to say "well, they had a good innings" about an 90 year old who is knocked down by a drink driver. It's no less awful when an elderly person is murdered than when a child is murdered.

But if someone reaches the grand age of 90 and then dies of an illness (aka "natural causes") then it's just what is to be expected and although the people who love them will miss them, it's just part of the natural order of things.

Very sad.

Not tragic, though.

ThisLittlePiggy, I think your post is really interesting. It's made me stop and think for a bit.

Do you think that what a lot of people do? Put the grief experience of someone else into a hierarchy if you like of more or less that what they themselves have experienced. Reading this thread and the other thread in AIBU about grief and bereavement it has come up a lot. As you say 'What's the point of that?'. I wonder if it just one of the perfectly natural things we do as an internal mechanism for coping with our own grief.

As you say tragedy isn't the only word, I would agree with you, but for some people using that word might feel right for them, it might be one of the only words they can think of or use to convey how they are feeling. I'm not sure how then the reaction (hopefully unspoken if you were actually with that person face to face) of "that's not the right word for your experience" would be helpful for them?
I think it's perfectly natural and OK to think 'for me, your experience, your grief isn't or wasn't or wouldn't be tragic' but at the same time acknowledging for them that is is, regardless of the circumstances or age of the person who has died.

I think that the circumstances of a death can be what makes it tragic.
I've seen a lot of people die in their 80s (as a nurse) but some deaths seemed part of a natural progression whereas others were sudden, unexpected and unpleasant deaths with no chance for the family to say goodbye. That's when dying can be described as 'tragic' IMO whatever the age.
It sounds as if your Mum's death is what I would call 'tragic' because it was quite sudden and unexpected.

Also yes, I'd say people dying when they are younger than 75 or so is tragic because it's ''before their time''.

Tunnocks. Don't know what to say. Agree with the consensus it's very sad when a good person dies but tragic when they are younger there's no comparison.

My lovely grandmother didn't shed a tear when her beloved husband died at 84 and even played the organ at his funeral. She felt herself to be very fortunate as her own father had died at 42 leaving her mother with 5 under twelve. Pre welfare state he was a minister so they lost their home. She felt blessed to have had my grandfather for such a long happy marriage and even said how dare I complain after what my mother had to deal with (different generational attitudes though)

Tragic to you maybe but no, not a tragedy.

I lost my mum 3 years ago at the age of 72...to me this was too young and I am totally heartbroken about it but she was getting older and had numerous health problems and in the end she looked forward to being out of her misery.

My BIL died last April at the age of 42, now to me that is a lot more tragic than the death of my mum because he was so young.

Sorry for your loss though, it's terrible to lose a parent at any age x

What I was trying to say is it's often the manner of dying that can be tragic.

For example an 80 year old dying of pneumonia after suffering illness such as cancer or dementia for a while isn't tragic because it's natural and often age-related but it is very sad and upsetting for the family.

An 80 year old getting hit by a car or committing suicide is tragic because it's a sudden horrible shock and not expected.

A young person dying is always tragic because they've not had time to 'live their life fully'. I include middle-aged people in that.

I agree Everlong

My BIL committed suicide - now that is tragic, such a waste of a young life.

My mum was 72, in my eyes far too young but bless her heart, she had done a lot of living in those years and was ready to go. It doesn't stop me missing her but it's not tragic.

I'm not a dictionary but most deaths are not what what I would define as tragic. Sad for loved ones, but sadness != tragedy, they're different.

Sorry for your loss.

There seems to be a lot of emotion attached to the word tragic, so much so that it's lost its meaning. According to the OED:

an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe

Terribly sad or extremely upsetting would be more appropriate to describe a lot of the bereavements above.

Sorry but my parents being killed when I was a teenager is tragic, my life was ruined, my MIL dying surrounded by her family, children and grandchildren in peace and comfort was truly devastating but absolutely not tragic.

Being absolutely devastated and floored when someone you love so much dies is natural, but does not make it a tragedy.

I feel the same as LostMummy.

The deaths I find most tragic of older people are actually the ones where the person is alone in life - that's very sad. Or where they were having 'a new start' in life and suddenly have died.

For example my 63-year-old neighbour was a carer for her elderly mother for years and never had any time for herself.

Then her mother had to go into a home and suddenly my neighbour was free to join university, write a book, work and start to enjoy life for herself.

Literally months later she got cancer and died very quickly in lots of pain.

I found that tragic because at 63 she had only just started enjoying life for herself and had another 20 years of potential good health ahead of her.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I think having an elderly parent die is sad, as they've brought you up and you can never prepare for a parent's death. But at the age of 85 the parent has had a long life and you should be happy they managed to live a fulfilled life and at least had the chance to enjoy her children's accomplishments and the grandchildren she knew.

My mum died aged 52 and never got to hold her first grandchild who was born 2 weeks before her death. That was tragic.

I don't know if you can really describe the loss of any one individual, regardless of who they are or how old they are, as tragic.

It's hard though and really relative.

My Dad died when I was 22 and I went through a phase of feeling really dismissive towards colleagues and friends who were losing parents in their 70s+. I just felt 'well yeah, I get that it's sad but they're at the age you expect people to die, you got their full lifetime with them, why are you so upset? You don't know how lucky you are!' Luckily I managed not to show it and if anything the guilt of feeling it made me even nicer to them.

Since then, I have had 4 children in various classes I've had (I'm a teacher) who have lost either their mum or their dad when they were 13, 11, 11 and 7. So I then found I was thinking along the lines of 'what am I feeling hard done about? I had 22 years with my Dad, he got to see my graduate and I had an adult relationship with him. I don't know how lucky I am.'

So yes, it's all relative isn't it. But I don't know if any of it is truly tragic.

On a large scale, no it is not tragic. However, on a personal level, the loss of somebody so close to you is tragic for you and I don't think anybody should belittle that. Only you know how tragic and I don't think YABU because, for many people, their mother is still a central figure in their life.
My parents live 10 minutes away and we see them several times a week, they are very much involved with the DCs and when they die I will find it personally tragic even though it's not significant on a larger scale.
Sorry for your loss.

How sad OneStepCloser. I'm sorry to hear that

I've lost several family members to cancer. All of them were in their 40's and 50's at the time, not spring chickens, but certainly far too young to die. One of my cousins died in accident whilst still a child. I find this horribly tragic and sad, never got to grow up, finish school, get a job, get married, have children. Nothing.