to be angry and sad that BIL and SIL got DN NOTHING for Christmas

[rainyrainrain]

BIL and SIL have DNiece4 and DNephew10. DH sorted out presents from us for their children this year as he had something specific he wanted to give them, it was not a toy though, more a practical thing. He had it sent directly to their house.
DH was talking to SIL an the phone earlier and asked her what they had got Dniece for Christmas. (Dnephew got a laptop 2 weeks before Christmas as his present.)
SIL was apparently a bit evasive and then said they didn't get her anything as she(SIL) 'forgot' and "DN didn't want anything anyway' ! DH was shocked and told her so, she then she said they went shopping yesterday and she got her a Hello Kitty bag.

I'm gobsmacked and angry and sad for the girl.
To clarify: they are of a religion and from a country that celebrates Christmas and does presents.They had a tree up so its not like they ignored Christmas completely.
They have enough money. I unfortunately get to be the one to help them with official documents, applications and the like so I know they have a fair bit of disposable income every month(more than we have).
They have form for being a bit weird in all sorts of ways and pretty much any toy DN has has been from us, same with pens and crafty stuff.But I really never expected that they would get her nothing at all!

Dniece goes to preschool so I assume there was a fair bit of Santa and presents talk in the run up to christmas(at least there was in my daughter's preschool) and the children will talk about what they got for Christmas when they go back.
And the poor little thing got NOTHING from Santa or her parents and a not very exciting present from her uncle.

DH is taking our relatives to the airport tomorrow and said he was going to drop by their house on the way home.
So after picking my jaw off the floor at the sheer thoughtlessness of her parents I went down my local high street before the shops closed and got the girl some presents. They are now wrapped up and the story is that Santa accidentally dropped them off at our house when he delivered DD's presents.

[DizzyZebra]

YABU if you're annoyed that it wasn't on Christmas day. My dd doesn't always have presents on Christmas day.

YANBU for being annoyed that the son got something and the daughter didn't.

[MissSingerbrains]

It sounds like a cultural thing to me, some countries just don't place as much emphasis on presents as we do. The laptop probably wasn't viewed as a Christmas present, and more of a necessity.

I think it would be ok to bring some presents for both children - from you, not Santa. If the family lives here and by the sounds of it is intergrating into the British culture, chances are that they will change their ways sooner or later, and you'd be setting an example of the way things are done here.

[sashh]

You have no right to undermine their parenting

You obviously don't come from a family that rewards one child with gifts and not the other.

One of the kindest things anyone did for me was to give me some money for exam results.

At the time I was just pleased, looking back I think she knew I wouldn't get anything from anyone else.

I didn't expect it, I wasn't the one who was rewarded for exam results. My parents have 'forgotten' to get things for me for birthdays or Christmas.

Even the bloody tooth fairy used to leave double the money I got for my sibling's teeth.

OP you did the right thing

[superstarheartbreaker]

I don't blame you for getting them gifts. Ok...mum and dad might not want to do it but so what if someone else wants to do it? Most grandparents for eg would do it.

[superstarheartbreaker]

Why does everyone care if these parents are offended? What about showing them how we make Christmas magic in this country?

[HissymasJumper]

I too think there's potentially an unequal approch to parenting between these children, and tbh, the laptop 2 weeks before but nothing on the day sounds a bit worrying too.

Keep an eye on those kids eh? They might need help.

[Whistleblower0]

OP, you sound lovely. I'd interfere away if i were you. Feel very sorry for these children, particularly the little girl. I'd be bringing over the presents. Make sure you put some books in as well

[Pompoko]

I think people who are saying stay out of it think that the parents will have done something for her. You can do a fantastic xmas without pressents, but these parents dont sound like they can be arsed. They dont read to her, they spent £500 on the brother, most of her toys have come from the op and they forgot to get her present (so they where planning to? No mention of keeping xmas simple and not materilistic?)
Give the presents to her, make her feel speciel. Keep an eye on her

[raisah]

Do you think that their son is being favoured over the daughter because he is a boy? It dies happen. The reason why I think this is because the boy receives items tbrough the year & the girl doesn't & the SIL has admitted this.

What other weird things do they do?

[revivingsnowshower]

I would take over the pressies you already got, plus something for your nephew. I would be careful about offending over one incident. I know you said your sil has done a few other things like not buying books or toys but if she is a good mum in other ways there could be a reason. Maybe she gets library books. I would be very careful before making any assumptions. But as the Auntie you could easily pop in with a few more gifts without offending.

But I would feel very sorry for my niece if she were being forgotten on Christmas day. I would want to make sure there was definitely no abuse or neglect going on.

In this country it is pretty hard to forget Christmas and if they have a tree up then it is not totally forgotten. I would be friendly but keep a close eye on what is going on. If you get a bit more of a feel for how they are treating the kids you can work out what to do for the best, but don't ignore your instinct that there could be a problem.

[ThreeWisePerpendicularVinces]

I would take the presents you have bought and say they're from you. This isn't 'undermining their parenting' at all.

What matters is that a 4 year old girl has been treated differently, and deserves a kind gesture.

It does sound like perhaps her brother is the favoured child and I would keep an eye on this. As a one off, no presents is pretty crap but hardly the crime of the century (although very odd to me). However, the bigger picture is slightly worrying.

You've done the right thing, OP.

[littleducks]

It's sad for both the children that are being brought up in a country that celebrates Christmas in a big way not to wake up to presents on Christmas Day.

Oh for FFS, I am so fed up with this attitude on MN. If your children have been brought up with the whole Santa thing and expect a mountain of presents, I agree it would be sad. But if they don't celebrate xmas at all or celebrate xmas in a different format (no presents but lots of church or celebrate in January or whatever) won't be sad, to them the xmas morning thing is like Thanksgiving or big Halloween parties something you see on TV or in books and looks vaguely fun but not something that actually happens or you expect to do.

WRT the books, it is a common attitude which is why there is the whole bookstart campaign and you are given free books with the birth certificate and by your HV. Some people genuinely don't realise a child would enjoy a book if they can't read, some view books as precious and wouldn't dream of giving a child a book that they might rip or ruin especially if when they grew up they were poor. I'm not saying they are right but I dont think you can jump to the conclusion that it is laziness.

[SarahBumBarer]

Oh FGS - I have DS 3 and DD 2. If DD got a laptop or a tablet he would be expected to share it with her and certainly in the case of your DN at 4 years old she is old enough to be wanting to play on a laptop. She also probably has dozens of toys of her own and hand me downs from her brother. The last thing my DD needs is more blasted toys.

ANd when DS went into nursery on Friday morning and was asked what he got for Christmas he yelled very excitedly "I got a spiderman" (probably the cheapest piece of tat he got) and then moved on to playing dragons with the other boys there, Christmas forgotten. Parents care about this shit not four year olds (unless they have been brought up very materialistically).

[coralanne]

Too true Sarah.

My neighbour's DN got a bible for Christmas. The child is 8 years old

[Mumsyblouse]

If you must take something, take one gift for each child. Just say they were extras as the gift given was so practical. Don't start playing favourites yourself, that would entirely defeat the point!

As for the books thing, I know at least a couple of families who recently immigrated who would not be fussed about getting books for their four year old and might say an off the cuff remark like that, but are very kind, generous parents whose children have learned English very quickly and are doing just great in the school system. Most UK origin parents don't read every night to their children either. I don't think one remark is really the basis for judging their parenting and I also think if they are not Christians, then berating them for not having the type of Christmas you think is acceptable is really off.

I just don't see any cause for massive indignation here, different families do have different ways of showing love and care, and if this little girl is quite happy (and we have no evidence she is not), then the fact that she didn't follow the traditions is neither here nor there- would you go round to a Jewish family, or a Jehovah's witness family and take some Christmas presents round as they were so deprived?!

[Mumsyblouse]

And- I don't read one child getting a tablet two weeks before Christmas as favouritism necessarily, we buy on an 'as needed' basis in our household and just get electrical items when they are in the sale/when they need them, a four year old doesn't need a tablet/computer! If they then refused to get the little girl one when she was 10, that would be favouritism.

Also- the little girl got a Hello Kitty bag, not nothing. Perhaps that was what she wanted in the shop and she was given it! A four year old would love a Hello Kitty bag more than a tablet in all likelihood. So all this -she got 'NOTHING' drama is overstated.

[3boysplusme]

Give the children the presents. The parents sound like loons. Childhood is so short anyway

[rainyrainrain]

Morning all!
Dh went this morning with the presents and got something for the brother on the way. He said the presents were from us, not Santa( that was a stupid idea admittedly) and there is one very happy little girl out there this morning!
And yes there were books included, her brother will read them with her! (No library books around,I'm pretty sure.)

So I think we have kept out of the whole Christmas business in some way and its not unusual for us to give them gifts so no offence was taken.
I think that was ok.

As for concerns over their welfare: They have a roof over their head, live in a clean environment, they are fed home cooked food most of the time and have appropriate clothes. And I do think their parents love them.
They do unfortunately have parents who can't be arsed to read with them or take them to the park/ playground and think its ok for the 10 year old to be on facebook(for example). DH once told me that because they didn't paint 'proper' things they thought they were wasting paper/paint. No idea how they think they were going to learn drawing or painting without scribbling. Sadly,I don't think they are the only children with parents like that though and thats not really a welfare concern is it?

I do look out for them, I pushed for niece to be sent to preschool when they moved here and sorted out a lot of other things for them. I have also supplied them with art materials and books ever since I have known them because I think these are important for child development.( high horse emoticon)

Thank you for your advice everyone.

[rainyrainrain]

Mumsyblouse I never said they were not Christian, they are. Of course I wouldn't expect them to celebrate Christmas if they were Muslim or Jewish!

[Mumsyblouse]

Rainyrainrain sounds like you handled it really well.

I would give over on the 'all children need art materials' though. No, they don't, and the most important thing is that the children feel loved.

I am thinking of the family we are closest to who came here a few years ago, and they have a very different parenting style, probably more similar to what people did here in the 1970's (minus the smacking!) They love and adore their kids, but they don't see their role as one of enriching the environment and one to one time, the children are with them 24/7 but they wouldn't get out books and have 'reading time' or painting sessions at home. To them, that's school stuff and their eldest child is at the top of his class despite not speaking a word of English four years ago, so don't be too quick to judge those who don't parent in a different way, they are not child-centric, think children have their place within the family as a whole, but spend all day every day with them and love them.

[DizzyZebra]

To the person who said its sad for a child not to have presents on Christmas day;

Only if your child is expecting them. My daughter does not get presents from her father or grandparents on Christmas day. (Jehovah witness). I can assure you though, she is perfectly happy with that. She got her Christmas presents from me a few days before Christmas this year as she asked to spend Christmas with her dad and his wife - knowing that would mean a different day for presents with me, knowing that she wouldn't wake up to gifts. (i do believe his wife's family gives her presents at christmas though, she told me they do).

She is four and i am quite frankly saddened that a four year old is able to apply more logic to this than many adults. No represents on Christmas day does not mean no presents ever.

My daughter has "present days" where her dads family give her lots of presents. She thinks its great. Who wouldn't? She wakes up to presents she didn't know she was going to get, that's brilliant IMO.

Her dads mum probably does more for her than a lot of grandparents. She buys her an awful lot and i fail to see why anyone would be saddened by her not buying Christmas presents.

[DizzyZebra]

Obviously i know the OP is different but the sweeping statements about Christmas were pissing me off.

[rainyrainrain]

I know what you mean about it being considered 'school stuff'. And I agree its a cultural thing. But I do think the children benefit from being able to look at some books and do some drawing at home , as opposed to spending all day watching telly while parents arse about on facebook.

[Mumsyblouse]

Yes- and if your involvement is just to bring over some spare books and the odd colouring pad then that's a lovely thing to share. Once you start judging them, or worse, making the children feel their parenting is somehow not great, I am not sure it is worth it.

I am not saying having no books is a great thing, but having got to know this family as friends recently where their parenting style is quite different, but they have two happy intelligent and lovely children, it has been a bit of an eye-opener to me to reflect on my own parenting style. In their case, they are happy the children watch lots of TV as it is partly how they've learned English- and they don't read in English to their children as they have strong accents. I disagree with them and think it would be fine to read anyway, I'm just saying that the motivations for people not reading to their children are sometimes more complex than being lazy and not caring.

[ImperialBlether]

Did the adults buy each other a Christmas present?