Buggies must be folded by law, if a wheelchair user wishes to board

[BerniceBroadside]

I know this can be a hot topic so thought I'd share that stagecoach have new signs on their buses stating that buggies must be folded by law if a wheelchair user wishes to board. Let's hope it's actually enforced.

These threads make me want to beat me head against a wall.

"Equality" is giving someone an equal chance to access a facility. A wheelchair user can only access a bus by using a wheelchair space. A non-wheelchair user can access any seat on a bus. If they choose not to do so because of their choice to use a non-foldable pram, that is entirely up to them. That does not mean that they get to block access to the single wheelchair space, thus absolutely denying any wheelchair user access to the bus.

Equality is not providing a disability-specific facility, and then expecting those with disabilities to share it with everyone else.

And entitlement? Really? The only entitlement on display in these situations is by people who have found it convenient to use a facility for those with disabilities, and do not wish to either vacate it when it is needed, or be subjected to a breath of criticism for not doing so.

The equality argument is utter bollocks because of simple maths. For every wheelchair user, there will be multiple buggy users. If the wheelchair user is not prioritised, there is a reasonable chance of them almost never being able to access the facility designed for them. In some areas there will almost always be a buggy on a bus. This could mean that a wheelchair user has to sit at the bus-stop for hours waiting for an empty slot. How is that equality?

x-posted with Blu

So many threads on this subject and we are just going round in circles.

Wheelchair users have priority
If you can, get a buggy that folds easily
If you can't, wait for the next bus
SN buggies are wheelchairs too

Those are the rules.

Fleta That was my daughter, she apologises unreservedly.

(She's in a mardy today which doesn't help and she does get a bit hacked off at these threads, more than once she has felt she has to justify her existence).

Bernice please don't be too harsh on those with shopping trolleys. They are often used by people with disabilities who couldn't manage without them.

Thanks Dawn - that's nice of her. She must get fed up.

My initial comment was to the people suggesting that everyone can manage with an umbrella fold - when really I can't.

I have never, EVER refused to move either by folding / getting off on the odd occasion and never would.

I am in London now. I've not always been. I know bus fares are more expensive elsewhere but then they'll be more if people have to sub for someone's choice. In fact it was living out of London that made me ensure I had a foldable option.

I also made this point to a friend a few days ago. Not that long ago you weren't allowed on a bus with an unfolded buggy. I think its only in the last decade in my home town they've allowed that, for a while despite disabled spaces unutilised you weren't allowed on by drivers unless you folded your buggy first.

All buggies should be folded before boarding irrespective of whether a wheelchair user is on board.

And large P&T buggies should be banned altogether.

Discuss

Fleta Apparently she has pmd you!
Right, now I'm elbowing her off, she's supposed to be revising!

Where I am if I get the bus in the morning to nursery/work with DD in the pushchair, my time normally co-incides with a lovely girl in a wheelchair using the same bus.

I know she has priority, I always let her on first (although she has offered to let me on first before and I've always said no). There has always been enough space for her wheelchair on one side of the bus and my pushchair (a small stroller) on the other side.

If the day comes when only one of us can get on, of course she is priority and I've no problem with that whatsoever. Although the buses are once every 30 mins (thank you Stagecoach) so if and when this happens I'll be late for work - but this is the fault of the crappy bus company who cram us onto tiny buses that are full and don't run often enough.

Neither of us has a problem - but judging by the looks and comments we both get from other people on the bus when they have to move themselves, or their ridiculously large suitcases, neither of us has a right to be there.

Sharing a bus with a wheelchair user isn't stressful, it's the entitled non-wheelchair users, non-pushchair pushers that tut, roll their eyes and make comments that make the journey stressful.

Yes I know Rodney, but like with buggy users there seems to be a vocal minority who don't give a stuff about anyone else.

Dawndonna your DD was spot on as always, no apology needed. Tell her I hope my DS2 grows up to have a determined attitude. I'm having problems taking my DS out in his wheelchair because he gets upset by all the stupid comments by random strangers. He's refusing to go into town now because of it. He's 5, he shouldn't have to deal with this. Not that anyone should mind you.

It has always been the case that wheelchairs have priority and it should be obvious to most people that a wheelchair user's needs outweighs the needs of a parent and a buggy (even if the baby is sleeping and the buggy is hard to fold and they have a ton of shopping etc)

Well, you might think it's that simple.

But wait -- I'm sure there'll be posters on this very thread maintaining that they can't fold their prams, and that they have just as much right as a wheelchair user to the space.

Every thread I've ever seen on this topic on MN has at least one such entitled idiot.

Ellie In all fairness Fleta did say she would get off if needed.
Other than that, M says that you need to tell ds that he sits in his chair as if he is king and then whenever anyone looks he says, loudly: I know, I'm amazing aren't I. She says they either engage or look away.

dd your dd sounds wicked.

good wicked I mean

She reckons she is, Eat

elliejjtiny - I have never ever made a stupid comment nor refused to get off the bus/move/fold my pram.

Dawn - your DD did indeed message me, she's lovely!

Sorry Fleta I didn't mean you (I also have a tank like buggy because I can't use a little one and I always wait for the next bus, like you do). I wasn't really talking about buses either, it's the people who follow us round the shops saying "why is he in a wheelchair?, will he always be in it? etc who really upset DS because they just don't stop.

Dawndonna thanks, I'll tell him. One man called DS2 a cripple a couple of months ago . DS1 rolled his eyes and said "its called disabled". Thankfully neither of them know what the horrible words mean. When we got the wheelchair I was so excited about taking DS2 out in it. I thought finally the comments about him being too big/old for a buggy would stop. Unfortunately they have got worse.

On the subject of just being polite and helpful, I was on a bus where a pushchair user was asked to fold for a WC. Pushchair mother said she couldn't due to disability so other passengers helped her (fold and put up in getting off).

More of this type of thing helps everybody.

Incidentally those PP who were discussing tube use with a WC - my DM does it BUT has to drive to a station with a lift to get on, and her destinations are fairly limited too. Luckily she wants to use Waterloo for the South Bank a lot but the system as a whole is woefully inaccessible.

Bernice has it spot on. We should all try to accommodate everyone if possible. Of course wheelchair users take priority.

However. The amount of vitriol on this thread against people with 'large' buggies or who may not be able to fold is insane! So many posters have now pointed out many valid reasons why they might not be able to fold (disability, SPD, etc) so why all the judgy comments? As long as people are prepared to vacate the wheelchair space then what's the problem if people choose to use a larger buggy for reasons that aren't immediately obvious but are helpful to them?