Another 'fencing with the neighbours' one...

[boschy]

Sorry, it might be a long but dont want to dripfeed!

Earlier this year we replaced 15 out of the 20 fence panels and posts between the back of our house and the side of the neighbours (all in one straight line). Technically, only about 7 of the panels are directly out the back of us, the rest are out the back of the neighbours, kind of diagonal between us and them, but for the sake of a good fence/relations etc, we shelled out for the whole lot. It is a beautiful fence, job very well done, and not cheap. They didnt feel able to contribute anything, as they were having some decorating done, and they dont think its their responsibility anyway.

In the recent storms, the remaining 5 panels have come down. These are to the right of the back of our house, so technically not to the back of us at all, it's more diagonal, as it is to their house. As a result, their dog can and does get into our garden, but our dog not into theirs (ours doesnt wander, theirs does; also on our pile of the fence there is a big pile of wood which deters my dog. FWIW, the wood is from two trees in our garden which we said they could have cut down if they wanted - I'd have preferred the trees, but it was taking their light, they didnt like the falling leaves etc). If I'm in, it's not a problem, because our gate will be closed and therefore their dog cannot escape. If I'm out though, the gate will be open so their dog could get onto the road.

Mrs Neighbour has been round to ask when we will renew the fence. I have said that we wont be renewing it any time soon as we cant afford it, however we will do out best to bodge something together as and when DH is not working 6 days a week and its not raining/blowing a gale on his day off. She said her DH doesnt think this is good enough, because a) the gap in the fence is unsightly and b) they are bored of looking out of their window to make sure their dog is still in their garden.

So, AIBU to think their dog is their responsibility? that in the meantime they could put some chicken wire or something up to retain their dog?

[QuintessentialShadows]

In your shoes, I would leave the gate open all the time for now, and hope your neighbour gets the point.

[AngelDelightIsIndeedDelightful]

Just a note of caution in response to the people saying you don't have to have a fence if the boundary is your responsibility. That is not necessarily true. Modern houses are usually sold by builders with an obligation in the transfer to keep boundaries fences etc. well maintained. Neighbours may or may not be able to enforce that directly (depends on how the transfer is set up), but still the obligation is there. I would also echo the poster who said that it doesn't matter whose house was built when, that has no bearing at all on who is responsible.

[birdybear]

Yes, just drop a letter round, then it clears it up without any confrontations.

[WoodBurnerBabe]

Doesn't matter whose the fence is - if you don't want a fence, you don't have to put one up. It is their responsibility to keep their dog in though.

[Spickle]

You can phone Land Registry to establish who owns the fence, if it is not clearly marked on the deeds. Do not assume that because your neighbour's house is on a newer development, it must mean the fence is theirs. We have a newish development behind our house, but the fence separating my house from the newer house is mine. The fence on my RH side is neither mine nor my next door neighbour's (no 't' mark on the deeds either), therefore Land Registry advised it was a joint responsibility. The fence on the LH side is also mine. There doesn't seem to be an entirely logical pattern and so perhaps you could reach a compromise by contacting Land Registry and see what they advise.

[boschy]

would it be seriously wimpy to write a very nice polite letter, and drop it in under cover of darkness??

[boschy]

ceebie, you're right, and I still havent actually said we wont do it. this is because I am a wimp.

will have to try and muster the courage

[ceebie]

boschy, during you last conversation with your neighbour, when she asked when you were going to replace the fence, you answered not in the immediate future. This implies that you will eventually replace it. I think that you need to clear up the confusion. Go over to her house, and explain nicely that you believe the fence to be her responsibility and therefore you assume that she will replace it (and will put in place measures to ensure that her dog doesn't come into your garden in the meanwhile). There is no onus on you to prove who is responsible - if the fence isn't mentioned in your deeds, then hand the problem back over to her to deal with - if she wants to look into ownership / responsibility further, then let her.

[boschy]

will check out gardenlaw, thanks for those links. the lovely new bit of fence has wooden posts, concrete rots vv quickly here because of the salt in the wind (seaside).

we've always had good relations with them, and I can understand they dont like the gaping hole in the fence, but we simply cannot afford a new fence, and it isnt a problem for us. if we had £650 we'd be buying a new water tank to replace the one that is leaking drastically!!

[Quoteunquote]

www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=24

Have a read on here.


Next time you renew the fence, use the concrete posts, so from then on it is just a case of slotting new panels in.

[redshifter]

Even if it was your fence, you don't have to replace it. No one has to have a fence/wall etc. At the boundary of their property. You can have nothing there. It is your responsibility to keep your animals off other peoples land.

[Whatisaweekend]

Now that you have established that the fence is not yours, I think the following points need to be conveyed to this neighbour (who sounds like an entitled PITA, btw - who would knock on a door demanding to know when you are sorting the fence out??)

1. the part of the fence that has blown down is not ours - it is yours and you are the ones who need to sort it
   
2. we have gone above and beyond both in financial terms and the desire to engender cordial relations to put in the nice part of the fence
   
3. it is entirely your responsibility to keep your dog/other dogs/pets in your garden
   
   They are being really cheeky to keep asking you what YOU are going to do about it!!

[Foxeym]

I have a dog that kept jumping next door, luckily good relations with neighbours and even though the fence is their responsibility because my dog was jumping I had to sort the fence out by making it taller otherwise I could have been taken to court for anti social behaviour

[GhostsInSnow]

It's worth reiterating what Trifle said as she had it spot on:

Even if the fence belongs to you, you are under no legal obligation to replace/fix it. If they have a dog it is their legal responsibility to ensure the dog is contained in their garden and as such they have to ensure this is the case, not you.

Have a look at Gardenlaw if you need clarification of Trifle's post, the fencing section forums are insightful.

[Felyne]

initgrand the recent storms which the OP said caused the panels to topple weren't really 'the first bit of wind', but yes the deeds should say whose responsibility the fence is.

[intitgrand]

Another thought who put the fence up? It shouldn't blow down at the first bit of wind.I would get them to come back and sort it out

[intitgrand]

unless it was built on your garden?

[intitgrand]

I don't understand your logic
If your house was there first, then your house must have had to have a fence before theirs was built?

[diddl]

YANBU-but please make sure the bunnies are safe!

They don't deserve an awful death to prove a point!

[Joysmum]

Let me put it this way, I have ponies and even if my neighbours have fenced their border as per the deeds they are under no obligation to fence in such a way to meet MY needs as a horse owner so I fence suitable too on the land I rent.

Unless your deeds dictate it must be fenced and the type of fencing (if that border is your responsibility) then you've be within your rights to either not fence or put up a chain link fence if that's what you wanted! If they feel this is unsuitable for their needs then they'd be at liberty to fence to their specifications on their land.

Of course, that isn't very practical though you are neighbours and ideally want to find a compromise which allows you to live in proximity without tension.

[PeriodFeatures]

they are twats. you are definitely not being unreasonable.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Their dog their responsibility and I'd start complaining about their dog coming in. Is bound to be shitting in your garden!

My neighbours tried to get me to pay half of their fence replacement once. They'd spent loads landscaping the garden, new summerhouse, etc. seemed surprised when I pointed out it was their fence and they could pay if they wanted a new one!

[TalkieToaster]

Did you tell the neighbours that the fence was their responsibility to maintain? Or did you find that out after you told them you weren't doing it? Details, OP, details!

[boschy]

an update: I checked our deeds and it makes no mention of this particular fence.

neighbour came round the other day and asked when we were going to have it replaced. I said not in the immediate future, as there are other things we need to do. so she said she was worried about her dog getting into our garden, that she could get into ours but not get back into theirs, plus her sister's dog is coming to stay shortly and she is afraid that dog will kill our chickens and/or rabbits. I said it would be best if they put some wire up on their side of the fence (much more accessible, and because of position of the fence actually safer for her dog, their responsibility to keep their dog in etc) but that we would not replace the fence any time soon. so she stomped off in a huff...

anyway, having done some more research; their house was built much later than ours, as part of a new estate so the fences were provided as part of that building activity ifyswim. therefore that apparently means it is THEIR fence. I dont care about what we've spent so far, but am not going to be railroaded into another £600 to keep their dog in. and if her sister's dog ventures in - the chickens are surrounded by an electric fence, which will be a nasty shock, and if it attacks DD2's rabbits I will be expecting vets bills paid and/or compensation for death/trauma etc.

they dont want to pay anything because they are having a new front door... honestly I would laugh at that, because our house is practically falling down!!

[ceebie]

Hey boschy, did you find out who is legally responsible for the fence? Interesting that you don't have to fix it unless it says so in the deeds, I thought you did.