to think there is a mysogynistic culture of hating MIL/'D'M on Mn?

[bunchoffives]

I have seen so many threads where the MIL's or DM's actions seem to be perfectly reasonable (or at least open to interpretation) yet they are accused of committing a heinous crime or they have all sorts of unkind motives attributed to them by angry, self-righteous daughters/daughters in law.

Also, there is a general assumption that DMs/MILs want to control or interfere all the time in their DC's/DGC's lives. Or always want to be with them. On the other hand, if the DM/MIL keep their distance they are accused of being uninterested and neglecting their grandparental duties. They can't win!

Is this attitude a transference of general misogyny in culture at large? Unconsciously adopted by younger women? Or is it more personal than that - younger women feel threatened and that their 'power' and authority is being undermined by older women?

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

^I don't see the problem with calling manipulative people manipulative confused

SO they happen to be women?^

which would be fine. if we had equality. but we don't. and there are so many negatives that 'just happen to happen to women'

but they don't just happen to happen.

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

it's the terms these posts use, the assumptions behind them, the generalisations (eg, I haven't got a MIL yet thank fuck), the generally negative attitude so prevalent towards older women - asscallopsays calling them bitch, witch, manipulative etc

Im noticing as i get older that the whole of bloody society has a negative attitude towards older women! Im only in my 30s and i can feel it and be more aware of it already .

Of course this is partly to do with women being judged on appearance so much and so harshly. Its cunting.

[ladyantigone]

However in this case, the selected subject is already 'women who are mothers and mothers-in-law' on a site whose users are almost 100% female and either get on with their families or don't.

What are they supposed to say? AIBU to ignore this person's blatant manipulation of me and my family because she is a woman and to point it out would require use of potentially misogynistic language?

It's ridiculous!

[ladyantigone]

I also don't really see how it can be an issue akin to discrimination against older women. Mothers and MILs cannot physically be younger than their daughters/DILs. And you can bet that some of them are discriminating against younger women, if you take that tack: feckless, not suited to responsibility, spendthrift, cannot be trusted to make own decisions etc.

[AnyBigFuckingJessie]

If people do react disproportiately on here (and I'm not sure they do), I think the issue is that we are reacting against a wider culture where you are not allowed to say your mother is abusive or toxic. Been there, lived it, know loads of adults who had emotionally and/or physically abusive childhoods, and we all know and attest to the disbelief victims are met with.

On here, MN has developed a culture where we're allowed to treat women on their individual merits, most of the time.

I'm a feminist: I don't hate men, I don't love women. I simply believe in equal opportunities and recognition. Equality means recognising that all groups of people contain utter gits and wonderful kind altruists. I won't put men or women on a domestic or economic pedestal. Because that would be sexist.

[FirstStopCafe]

YABU I have huge problems with my MIL. She questions my parenting decisions and is incredibly self-centred. She is the only person in my life I don't get on with. I'm pretty easy going and don't fall out with people. I really really want to get on with her but I don't. Seeing her makes me anxious. She doesn't speak to any of her siblings or daughter anymore after falling out with them. This makes me feel quite confident it is not me causing the problems

I certainly do not have a negative attitude towards older women in general.

[happydaze77]

Ime, it's often older women who have a negative attitude towards younger women, not the other way around. I work in a professional setting and am frequently snubbed by women aged 50+, who would rather deal with 'the man' than 'the young girl' (I'm in my 30s ffs!) Unfortunately, as the women are customers (and therefore always right) I have no power to stand up for myself.

[Drhamsterstortoise]

Eyeofnewt that makes so much sense.Its something I always thought about my mil.We get on quite well but that need to control is always there.

[BillyBanter]

No there isn't.

On some threads there is from some people a bit too much willingness to allocate malicious intent to whoever the thread is about, even if it's not that evident, but it's irrespective of if the OP is about a man or a woman from what I can see.

Where I do see a difference is when the OP is a man or a friend/partner of a man complaining about a partner or ex. People seem a lot less likely to take the OP on their word then and a lot more likely to defend the absent person being complained about.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I think both MILs and men have it rough on here. The wife/DIL are always in the right Maybe because the post is written in such a way as to garner the response the OP wants.

Have seen many examples over the years and do feel sorry for some where the wife/DIL is clearly in the wrong. Some MILs cant win for toffee and miss out hugely compared to the other grandmother.

[Zippitydoodahday]

My MIL is a bitch. Dh thinks so too. Yanbu.

[BillyBanter]

Mostly it's DILs posting rather than MILs and the present DIL tends to get more sympathy than the absent MIL being complained about.

But a couple of points. 1. There are also many threads about mums too, some pretty abusive ones. 2. If sons took more responsibility for maintaining a relationship between their children and their wider family instead of delegating it to their wife then perhaps there would not be so much friction when family 'cultures' clash. If DHs don't do this then perhaps that is in some way related to their own upbringing.

Maybe one lesson here is to bring our sons up to accept that responsibility.

[Boaty]

I'm now a MIL..since being on this site I micro analyse myself!!
Don't forget that daughters and sons are the next generation of MIL/FIL!!

[cricketballs]

I have often on here defended MIL and asked if the op would feel the same if it was her DM in the same situation I get flamed.....as I have 2 DS and no daughter I do worry how I am going to be perceived in the future. I will say now my MIL is no angel on fact there have been times when I could have happily strangled her but I think many on MN do treat their MIL as 2nd class citizens and forget that their DH/DP has a mother that has an interest in their lives/off spring

[APartridgeAmongThePigeons]

I think more women of an older generation take part in more family activities than their male counterparts.

So posters are going to bitch about their MILS more than Fils, because FIL probably don't get too involved.


I think MN is a webste mostly frequented by women.

So it's women bitching about women but I think it is circumstantial more than anything else.

I think men of the previous generation took more of an interest in their family's financial situations so I bet if MN was actually DN that it would be men bitching about their FIL

[APartridgeAmongThePigeons]

I also think so many women of previous generations wern't allowed to have anything but their families that they get very territorial of their sons and see the DIL as taking their place.

I certainly felt that way about MIL when she was around. I Had no problem with her being in dh's life as his mother but the truth is she often overstepped in to giving me advice on our relationship how dh should be fed etc. And I did my best but it really rankled and she passed away before we had kids. NO idea what our relationship would be like if she were alive now that we have children etc.

[BillyBanter]

Putting aside the blatantly abusive MILs a lot of it seems to happen around interference or advice on childrearing. People love to give advice. Read these boards to see evidence of that! MILs, being a generation older than their DILs want to pass on the benefit of their experience but 1. Official best practice has changed over the decades. 2. rejecting their methods can feel like a criticism of their parenting as much as their advice can feel like a criticism of the DIL's parenting. 3. there is more than one way to bring a child up and ideas about childrearing will vary from one family culture to another so there will be clashes there, where that is less likely to be with your own mother whose 'culture' you were brought up into and see as more the norm.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I don't like my MIL for reasons set out in my current thread in relationships.

MIL has a long history of causing estrangements in her family and falling out with people. I don't.

[Pagwatch]

I think there are few groups more sneered at than older women.
I think people are very happy to assume that a mil will be an interfering cow.
I think many many posters are ignoring that being an older woman and a mil is on their horizon.

And I say that having a very challenging mil

[raggedymum]

I love my MIL. She's great! FIL: eh, I guess he's a nice bloke. Pretty overwhelmed by MIL, and I know from DH had gendered expectations of his son which caused issues when DH was young (when DH wasn't a great mechanic, sportsman, etc.). DM is frustrating and can be extremely critical, but is also a very kind woman at heart and I try to be nice to her even when she is annoying me. DF is very manipulative and not someone I'd associate with if he wasn't family; luckily he doesn't care for direct contact and I can go years only communicating through DM.

I'd probably only post about DM, though, if I was complaining -- because she is the one I want to have a good relationship with and don't always. DF is a lost cause. Could that be part of the issue? That the relationship isn't as desired, so emotional energy goes into it? In that case, it might suggest women are desiring a female relationship, not that they hate women...

[BlingBang]

It is all about perspective. Of course there are some horrible MIL but I always take many of the MIL threads with a pinch of salt and realise that we are only hearing one side of the story.

I'm sure there also plenty of Mils out there who have reason to be wary of their DIL. There is no way that it can all be one way. Being the wife or DIL doesn't automatically make you a nice or reasoned person.

[BlingBang]

I'm the mother of sons only, and the attitude I often read on here regarding MILs depresses me. I'm very fond of my Mil, she's lovely.

[AveryJessup]

I've seen a fair amount of negative posts about FIL/ fathers' behavior too, not to mention the endless 'LTB' threads in Relationships.

Maybe it's more common to see MIL / DM threads because they tend to be involved interfere in childcare and parenting so obviously those kinds of issues are more likely to show up on mumsnet than generic family trouble.

[Sinful1]

Christ even when it's women bitching about women it's mens fault :/

[FixItUpChappie]

But what seems like a minor issue written out on MN can have so much more nuance in RL. I think its very hard to judge the complexities of someone's entire relationship with their mother on a MN thread.

MIL's and DIL's have been thrown together by circumstance. They are strangers, have not chosen each other, may have nothing in common etc and I think this leaves lots of room for misunderstanding and irritation. I think many MIL issues could be negated by sons being better communicators.