to think there is a mysogynistic culture of hating MIL/'D'M on Mn?

[bunchoffives]

I have seen so many threads where the MIL's or DM's actions seem to be perfectly reasonable (or at least open to interpretation) yet they are accused of committing a heinous crime or they have all sorts of unkind motives attributed to them by angry, self-righteous daughters/daughters in law.

Also, there is a general assumption that DMs/MILs want to control or interfere all the time in their DC's/DGC's lives. Or always want to be with them. On the other hand, if the DM/MIL keep their distance they are accused of being uninterested and neglecting their grandparental duties. They can't win!

Is this attitude a transference of general misogyny in culture at large? Unconsciously adopted by younger women? Or is it more personal than that - younger women feel threatened and that their 'power' and authority is being undermined by older women?

[ouryve]

YABU. I rarely read one that is either an unfounded gripe or a case of six and two threes. In either case, the OP is pulled up on it if she is being unfair or oversensitive.

[MrsMook]

I get on well with my MiL and "mum". I have a poor relationship with my mother. As do most of my relatives. It's about her personality and actions. Her sex is irrelevant.

FiLs and DFs are less likely to involve themselves in domestic and childraising issues that are frequently the source of complaint. They don't tend to be the focus of a post, but they are often in the background.

I can't personally comment on FiL and DF, they died a long time ago, so I have no experience on their role in adult life.

Often on a MiL thread, the DH/P gets criticised for his role. That's not mysogeny.

[dreamingbohemian]

YABU

My MIL is great, my stepmother is great, my mother is a nightmare.
Some of my complaints about her might seem unreasonable but if I sat you down and told you the whole story of everything I think you'd agree with me.

So no, I don't think you can extrapolate from individual relationships necessarily.

BUT I do think there is something to YouAreMyFavourite's Point #1. I think as women we are socialised to care deeply about certain things, to the point they become part of our identities, and so a lot of seemingly minor conflicts take on greater significance.

It's possible for example that I get on so well with my MIL because I'm not really emotionally invested in a lot of the things she cares a lot about. If she wants to make my son's birthday cake or throw a party for my husband's birthday, that's great, I know she'll do a great job and it's one less thing for me to worry about.

[KittyFucker]

I haven't got a MIL thank fuck

But I do have a rather toxic mother. I am not a woman hater, I would really like to have a mother who thinks she should treat her children and grandchildren equally, who knows what gratitude is, who can recognise and respect other people's feelings. Unfortunately I didn't get one like that. That doesn't mean I am misogynistic, just that I don't have a very likeable mother.

[EyeOfNewtBigtoesOfFrog]

I do think there is a certain situation that some (perhaps generally older) women find themselves in where they have not been working while their DH has, and they are used to the home and family being their domain. Being a matriarch over domestic matters, arrangements, and new babies gives them a role and feeling of control and in some cases they react to a DIL by trying to assert control over her, her DH (the MIL's son), their children and any arrangements that involve them. There are loads of posts about MILs doing this.

It may be that some MILs cling onto this power at all costs and resort to the controlling behaviour that's often described on here - drama, tantrums, insistence of Christmas having to be their way etc etc - because if they feel that power slipping away they will feel useless and invisible.

I've often praised my MIL on here - she is pretty much uninvolved, but never, ever negative or controlling. And - she has always been an independent, working person and still has a huge amount of responsibility day-to-day as a farmer. Not that they will always correlate, but I'm sure a big reason she has no interest in being the centre of attention family-wise is that she has so much else to do and to validate herself by.

There is also the issue of mothers being controlling and critical to their daughters which is the problem I have. My mum is deeply unpleasant and narcissistic and I'm not just using that as a throwaway term. Nothing is ever her fault, she slags off everything and everyone else but cannot take one iota of criticism without becoming extremely defensive and vindictive. And SO MANY mums of adult daughters seem to be like this and I can't work that one out at all. The reason you see a lot of it on here is that it is an amazing place to get support from people who really know what it's like.

[EyeOfNewtBigtoesOfFrog]

Oh and I'm also a feminist. I'm not sure it's misogynist to find the behaviour of these women unacceptable. One of the reasons I react so badly against my mother is because of the deeply sexist and misogynist messages she sends, which I want to resist and to protect my DC from.

[happydaze77]

Totally agree, EyeofNewt.

[Bonsoir]

Some women expect their relationships with their DC (and, by extension, with their DCs' partners and children) to be run on their own terms all their lives. These women are the MILs from hell we read about on MN.

[scallopsrmissingAnyFucker]

I agree EyeofNewt with both your posts. I think that there is misogyny in the wording used to describe these women: manipulative, witch, bitch being examples. I also think that misogyny in the wider culture and society that we live in contributes to this behaviour, as other people have also suggested. The lack of power example you give being a perfect example.

But it isn't misogynistic to find unreasonable behaviour by women unnacceptable. Definitely not. It is misogynistic to only notice or apply unreasonable behaviour to a woman or hold men's behaviour to a lesser level than women's.

[ithaka]

YABU. I adore my DM & I am sure I have sung praises on here. My MIL, on the other hand is vile, while my FIL wasn't. Those are just the facts of their personalities.

I seen plenty posters complaining about annoying FIL. As it happens, mine was lovely & universally adored, so I don't join in.

On posts criticising MIL, I can relate as my MIL is grim and universally disliked, so I join in.

No misogyny, just the reality of my family.

[MorrisZapp]

Well one thing definitely is sexist. So many people blame their SIL for any issues that occur in their brother's household. Ie my nephew only has one pair of shoes and can't hop yet, is my SIL a lazy beeatch etc.

Same with MILs to an extent. My MIL sits on her arse, expects a cup of tea, doesn't help with dinner etc etc. Presumably FIL does the same, but without the judgement.

[DziezkoDisco]

I think Morris has a point. It's the fact that the men get off scott free for the same behaviour. Not always but often.

[HowlingTrap]

Why is disliking one woman indicative of how you view the entire female species?, just had this on another section, no one could give me a sensible answer on there either strangely enough.

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

There does seem to be an automatic clash between mils and dils and I've often wondered if its a control, power, competitive, head of the pack thing.

See it on here loads!

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

but no wonder that women care more about doing something related to house and family 'correctly' ...they will be judged more harshly if something goes wrong.

its not difficult to see this sets women against each other!

in contrast men often get widely praised for making small contributions to running the house/child care.

we judge women and men differently and there are consequences!

[fluffyraggies]

For a start this is predominantly a site used by women. It's not 50/50 with male posters. So it's always more likely to be a post by a woman having a moan.

While it's the women who do the majority of child care and 'family interaction' there will always be more falling out 'woman to woman'.

In all honesty how many DHs are expected to ring up their wife's mother to tell her about the kids? How many DHs are the ones trying to organise xmas dinner every year, and worrying about who's going to be put out? How many DHs are out there waving birthday cards about saying WRITE THIS AND POST IT TO YOUR MUM WILL YOU?!

When men and women have an equal role in the family then there will be an equal amount of falling out between male and female members of families. It's not about misogyny.

[HowlingTrap]

I have 2 boys, and although I hope to be a nice MIL,
It's going to be very difficult to see someone else to swagger in and take over 'most important woman in their life' after I have shovelled blood sweat, and tears from birth.
It must be very hard, especially if that person is very,very different from you.
I think that feeling can manifest itself in different ways.
I couldn't be more polar opposite to my MIL if I tried,
Whilst there is no outward hostility we just don't 'gel' and I frequently get irratated,
One day I may see it from her point of view.

[ladyantigone]

No, it is not misogyny. It is a difficult relationship writ large, that's all.

I get on with neither my mother nor my MIL; it's not as bad as some people have it, but it's not great. MIL would, if we let her, contact us daily with advice for doing everything according to her whim. It drives DH crazy and it makes me furious. I'm not sure that analysing the relationship in feminist terms would be very insightful to be honest: both men and women crave personal power and assert themselves with their children.

[ladyantigone]

Although come to think of it, the fact that DH can switch it off and I am expected to deal with her IS a wifework issue, but I suspect that's not what the OP wanted.

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

I think generally women aren't nice to other women. All the trashy mags are aimed at and bought by women and contain article after picture after article after picture slagging off other women. Their size, their choices in life etc.

I see it with other women in rl as well. Criticizing the woman if a marriage breaks down no matter the story, even criticising female victims of domestic violence. Or blaming the woman if a couple provide rubbish food at a dinner party or wedding. Its all What was SHE thinking! Or blaming the woman if the couple don't visit for long or send a rubbish present.

Men get excused of all these things in rl but massively on here as its seen as the women's area.

The women in step families seem to be in instant competition as well. You only need to look at the step parenting section to see that. The one that bothers me the most is when step mums slag off bio mums for the children's eating habits and table manners, ignoring the fact that the dads have a role in that too. Its just an excuse to criticise other women and set up an invisible competition where they are inferior because of the kids table manners. Competitiveness right there.

Or when the man cheats and the wife blames the ow. Or when you meet a new bloke and he criticises the ex and says how much better, smarter, or prettier you are. He knows that works a lot of the time. Sets the women up in their default position of competing with each other and flatters the new girlfriend. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

[squoosh]

I'm nice to other women, my female friends don't seem to despise other women either.

[bunchoffives]

It's not personal relationships I'm referring to.

It's the terms these posts use, the assumptions behind them, the generalisations (eg, I haven't got a MIL yet thank fuck), the generally negative attitude so prevalent towards older women - as scallop says calling them bitch, witch, manipulative etc

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

I think generally women aren't nice to other women.

i cannot imagine that being said about any other discriminated group than women.

[ladyantigone]

I don't see the problem with calling manipulative people manipulative

SO they happen to be women?

[mytimewillcome]

Well said Ladyantigone.