to totally fail to understand why Sexism is never seen as bad as racism??

[chemicalsister]

Following on from the Saudi Olympics thread, I keep getting upset about Sexism thriving in the modern world when racism is quite correctly - seen by the fast majority as clearly wrong and abhorent.
Even educated professionals have wound me up recently asserting we sholud adapt schools, especially first few years of infants , to better suit boys and their poorer attention span,
AND poor boys now do less well at exams at 16 so we must reduce course work etc..
I am old and remember when boys did better than girls at 16-- There was no outrage and plans to change exams then! It was just seen as inevitable ..... Fume!

[GatoradeMeBitch]

FortyDoors If he believes you would be incapable of doing the DIY, that's sexist. If he's doing it because he likes to and knows you don't like to, that's fine!

And taking the car for an MOT - is that because you both suspect the garage would try to charge you for more? Interestingly, a male friend of mine became more of a sexist when he became a mechanic. All of a sudden he was full of tales about how so many women are incompetent drivers, and how he has to explain everything more slowly to women.

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

I would love to take the car for an MOT but DH have said that the car would fail.

[Toadinthehole]

Holding doors? Driving responsibilities?

This is a thread about whether sexism is taken as seriously as racism. Are these being given as serious examples, or is this a pisstake?

There is racism and sexism all over the world, you know. This is not a problem to be determined purely by reference to attitudes held in UK suburbs.

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

I have never done DIY, DH is happy to do it and I don't wish to learn.

[GatoradeMeBitch]

The door holding issue I just don't get! It's something I hear men reference frequently, along with giving up seats for women/pregnant women.

I hold doors open for people all the time. When I walk through a door I look to see if anyone else is coming, and I hold the door for them. At work I noticed more women do this.

It used to be a grand chivalrous gesture way back when, men would literally run across the street to get a door for a woman. Women were wearing restrictive clothing making them quite weak, and doors could be very heavy. I live in Oxford and still see huge wooden doors everywhere, so I understand why it was a big chivalrous deal then, but it's endured! Holding shop doors and office doors is just plain good manners. Men are the only ones who make a big deal out of it, and say they shouldn't have to do it...

[claraschu]

To return to the original question, I think it is because the sexist people have the excuse that there is a fundamental difference between men and women, whereas there is no actual biological difference between white and black people.

Unfortunately, even people with good intentions exaggerate this difference, and unconsciously use it to slant their attitudes, their approach to parenting, and all sorts of other things.

Most people seem to think that men and women often have different strengths, tastes, habits, and learning styles; no one can seriously say this about people of different skin colour.

I think this is one reason that sexism is more complex and difficult to eradicate than racism.

[Lililly]

This thread caught my eye because last night on the news, Prince William was speaking out against racism at an FA dinner, and it struck me that I cannot even imagine him making the same statements about stamping out sexism.
I also though, couldn't think of a comparible example that could be likened to the Russian football situation with the crowd shouting abuse? Treatment of women in SA perhaps.

[GatoradeMeBitch]

Toadinthehole They are examples of how sexism is an everyday thing. (The everyday sexism site is HUGE now, though to be fair nearly all of the entries are major things.)

Like Forty said, if she took the car in for its MOT, it would be more likely to fail, because mechanics assume a driver who has a vagina will know nothing about the workings of a car and they can fail her on whatever they like.

[SanctimoniousArse]

'Tackling sexism is less of a priority for society than tackling racism, OP, because men can suffer racism. It is really that simple'

One 'ism' where men are equally disadvantaged is probably disablism. Probably because disabled people are often seen as 'sexless'. So we get equality in discrimination.
Result!

[Toadinthehole]

I think they are examples that trivialise the question being discussed in this thread.

[Grennie]

Other examples - girls and women being taken abroad for forced marriages, female genital mutilation, rape of women, sexual harassment. Are they serious enough examples?

[Toadinthehole]

Yes, they are - as are examples of slavery, murder, political disempowerent and other examples of racial harassment.

That should really be enough to dispose of the OP - but I suspect it won't.

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

With most problems I believe you have to start small.

Tackling low level sexism is easier to do.

[Grennie]

Nobody is saying there isn't racism/white supremacy. But liberal types condemn black slavery, racial harassment, etc. Look at the outcry on the left over racist murders? They don't decry FGM and forced marriages in the same way. In fact you hear the bullshit about cultural relativism.

[DontPanicMrMannering]

Toad because the little things that slide every day enable completely the larger issues of eg wage disparity.

forty really disabled men only really?

mittens if your OH would also have fun driving but you get to decide due to your status based on sex then yes. If however they hate driving then no.

But even then as it is so ingrained at which point did they "decide" of their own free will to defer the driving?

[GiveItYourBestFucker]

I don't they are trivial, toad. We can be outraged by women in Saudi not being allowed to drive by their laws, but in the UK many women are prevented from driving by their husbands/partners. Aren't these just different experiences of the same problem? I claim the right to be just as outraged on behalf of women in my own country who are told they can't drive, who are told they can't take the car for its MoT because an (assumed male) mechanic will discriminate against them.

[Grennie]

When I look at couples in a car together and women or men are driving 50% of the time each (roughly), then I will know there is no sexism at work in the decision of who drives.

[Toadinthehole]

It sounds as if this debate is being framed in terms of a very specific group of people. This is a mistake, as racism and sexism are worldwide problems that need to be addressed by everyone, not just white liberals in suburban Britain. In any event, I find it somewhat surprising to be told that FGM and forced marriages are tolerated. I understand that the law has been changed to specifically prohibit such practices, notwithstanding the fact they were illegal anyway.

Please don't make this a parochial debate.

[meddie]

gatorademeBitch exactly. Women will tolerate sexism as the fear of being labelled a feminist is greater.

Racist comments are usually immediately challenged nowadays. People even if they are racist know to censure themselves due to society's disapproval. They feel no such compunction to censure their sexist comments.

my boss once during a debate told me to 'shut up and get back in the kitchen and make him a sandwich' (because he was losibng the argument).
I was fucking furious and immediately challenged him on it. His biggest supporters were other women who told me I needed to lighten up, that he was just joking etc etc.

When your own gender wont defend you against sexist remarks, what hope do we have.

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

The question was would he open doors for men ( as in go out of his way)

If he was exiting and anybody was waiting to go in it good manors to keep the door open.

[Grennie]

Yes they are prohibited. When were the last prosecutions for them? Nobody actually does anything about it Toad. Even though FGM and forced marriages are still happening to UK girls and women.

Parochial? What about infanticide in India? The large number of infant girls killed because they are girls. So called honour killings. Bride burnings, etc. Women all over the world are treated much worse than men. This is not something that just affects white middle class women in the UK.

[DontPanicMrMannering]

Toad the problem of only considering the "large" issues is that it only exposes the out and out sexists. Most men I know would objevt to FGM, women being prevented from accessing some jobs etc.

But they still go home and pat themselves on the back as a believer in equality and put on their nice shirt ironed by a wife who "chose" to stop her career because, well her wage barely covered the childcare didit? And women aare so much better at that stuff....


As a pp said replace all those "women" with "asians" and you have a whole different ballgame.

[Grennie]

Meddie - Women won't defend you because most women don't take sexism seriously. They don't see the enormous impact this has on women's day-to-day lives.]

[Toadinthehole]

Who made the shirt?

[Grennie]

Women and children