To think all this naming and shaming business is a bit shitty

[tasteslikechicken]

I've noticed three threads over the last couple of days that seem really vindictive, with the sole purpose of damaging peoples small businesses (and therefore income). I cant think of any other circumstances where mumsnetters would seek to do that to another person.

I think if you are going to name and shame you should have the courage of your convictions and out yourself too.

The anonymity afforded by this site allows people to express themselves more freely than they would in RL, I think it's poor form to abuse this by snipping at businesses on such a public forum.

Some people have made the comparison to when large organisations i.e. supermarkets, large retailers etc. are named then it's the same thing.

I disagree; when you are commenting on these large organisations they are just that- organisations- with thousands of people in them. When posters are focussing on a single, often small business, there is a very different quality to the thread which I see as a bit cowardly and punitive with the sole aim being to hurt and damage someone.

Reassuringly, many people quickly point out the OPs motives and unreasonable behaviour, unfortunately once the horse has bolted though.

Just to clarify, I think there are many situations when anonymity is important, I don't think any of the posts I've seen apply, they've just been spiteful and ultimately compromised the OPs perhaps justified initial irritation.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

I know the woman who posted the breast feeding on in real life. She is honest and that is what happened.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

Its fine not to like the fact she posted it, or think she shouldn't have posted it. That's a point of view.

To speculate whether she was telling the truth or not is another matter as I know it to be true.

[BecauseYoureGorgeous]

YANBU

[tasteslikechicken]

keema, I'm not doubting for a minute that the breast feeding episode was true, it was the fact that BFing mums sister took up the fight on her behalf and consequently lost the point by being so vitriolic that I objected to.
Also by dint of being an adult and a parent, I think the sister displayed a huge capacity to patronise her sibling and fight her corner.
Still feel BFing mum was treated appallingly though.

[PortoFiendo]

I think it is very wrong to name and shame here. Different for posting on say TripAdvisor where it is more likely that the owner can see and respond if they want. i hate the idea that small businesses could be affected by some of the quite ridiculous threads I have seen here, re sharp table corners, not letting a non customer use the loo etc.

[PortoFiendo]

I can imagine even a scenario where a MNetter has set up a much loved business selling cappuccino and cupcakes and due to letting her ignorant teenage niece behind the counter for five mins gets her business slated from here to kingdom come. It all needs taking in context, and response to any complaint.

[ErmagherdPerngwens]

The thing is due to the thread on here lots of people also posted (or said they were planning to post) on Trip Advisor, people who have never visited the cafe and have no idea of the truth of the thread, and yes, I'm aware the OP is 'well known' on here so there are lots of people saying how completely true it must be - doesn't mean it is, trolls have sock puppets, well known posters can still be trolls, etc.

If the cafe hadn't been named, I'd have believed and been outraged by the thread, as it was I was just disgusted that the OP posted it without making a complaint to the cafe first. Maybe slightly more reasonable to name and shame once they've complained, if the complaint was dealt with badly.

[reelingintheyears]

I wouldn't agree she was patronising her sister, I would say she was sticking up for her, her sister came on and explained the situation which was as the OP stated.

[reelingintheyears]

And her sister's DH had complained to the café and they had denied it happened and deleted his comments.
Hence the name and shame.

[pastelmacaroons]

If small business is so fucking desperate then small business should be nice to customers who put regular money in its FUCKING TILL.

When money is generally short in supply at the moment and having a coffee and the like is a big treat or a little luxury for many people.

Small business should be bending over backwards to make people feel welcome should be drumming into their staff how important custom is, and smiling if through gritted teeth and apologising.

[LittleMissWise]

I agree with you OP.

My parents have a small business that has a very good reputation. They have worked tirelessly for that reputation for 44 years and deserve it. If someone came on here and named them for a perceived 'wrong' it would really damage them.

In my mind people (the customer) want things to go their way a lot of the time, even if they are in the wrong, have changed their mind etc so want to get back at the other person. These naming and shaming posts are not done by rational, straight thinking people, they're angry and want their pound of flesh so,post without a second thought about the consequences.

[pastelmacaroons]

I totally disagree with you Little Miss and if your family business has reviews then they should mostly be water tight, good reviews.

And one upset post will be in perspective.

This is the day of the internet, and If I personally had a customer facing business right now, I would be drumming into my staff to be friendly and kind at all times.

[tracypenisbeaker]

I was in a fast food restaurant the other day, and while I was in the queue a man was going ape shit because he had 'been waiting 6 minutes' for his burger. The manager was trying to explain quite politely that because he had ordered it without something on it, it needed to be made from scratch and they were really busy but that she was really sorry about the wait etc. He was having none of it, and demanded the contact details of the CEO! (cue massive eyeroll) Bearing in mind this was a multi-national company.
The irrational, arrogant rubbish he was spouting, 'I'm going to take this to the top' etc, also saying he was going to 'put it all over' Tripadvisor.

My point is, if he were to accurately complain about his 6 minute wait in an objective way and say 'the manager politely explained that because I had ordered off menu and it was lunchtime and busy, that is why I was waiting,' then his complaint wouldn't really wouldn't have been as exciting. You can bet his version of events was full of shit and exaggerations because he was a tosser just trying to get some one-upmanship.

[PlatinumStart]

But this thread proves that most people don't just lap up what the OP says - more often than not more effort goes into establishing the detailed FACS of the OP than does in the average criminal case.

MNers routinely cross examine, ripping apart stories and adding their own comprehensive helping of vitriol.

Small businesses should not be protected from criticism purely because they are someone's livelihood and I can understand why someone would be very upset if as a regular at a cafe, their young DD were one day prevented from using the toilet because they weren't making a purchase that day. I can understand why someone would be furious if their sister was subjected to insulting behaviour whilst feeding their child.

In the same way I avoid some big corporations for their ethical stance so I would like to avoid an establishment that thinks it's a non issue (deleting he fathers comments tell me how seriously they took the original complaint) for their staff to abuse a nursing mum. I want to spend my money intelligently and given a choice that doesn't include patronising establishments staffed by arseholes.

[RevelsRoulette]

I think I'm talking about a different cafe one to many of you! The one I am on about had no breastfeeding involved.

[anon2013]

I know what you mean but with small businesses it's tends to turn into a very personal attack as they have people instead of a faceless corporation to target. I would always complain to the business in person or by email.

[OrchidLass]

I completely agree OP I really can't abide this 'name and shame' attitude. Every single one of us will have experienced what is, or what we perceive to be, poor service. But when that happens I deal with it, complain to the appropriate people if I feel its necessary and let them respond. I wouldn't dream of naming a small business online, its a shit thing to do. Reading a bunch of harpies screeching name and shame makes me cringe.

[isshoes]

I think everyone is reacting rather hysterically to this. The cafe treated a customer badly. She has spoken on an Internet forum about it. As most of the cafés defenders keep saying, they had every right to refuse her. Well guess what, she has every right to tell people what happened. Put yourselves in the public domain and expect the public to have an opinion.

[anon2013]

Opinions yes, hate campaigns and victimization no

[ScarerAndFuck]

There have been a few cafe threads recently.

The one with the being charged for an inch of milk, which I think turned out to be made up as the OP kept getting details wrong and had a kind of fantasy cupcake ending to it. Think it got deleted in the end but only after the manager came on to say that the story was made up, they were actually closed when some of it was meant to have taken place and they didn't have a staff member working there to match the OP's description.

One where a breastfeeding mother and her teenage son were laughed at because she was feeding her two year old, which was deleted by MNHQ to give the manager a chance to deal with the issue. Lots of uninvolved people were linking the thread to the cafe's Facebook page or posting fake reviews and abuse before the woman who had actually been there had even contacted them properly to discuss it, so I think MNHQ had a fair point with deleting that one.

And two where the same OP has claimed her child wasn't allowed to use the toilet, one of which was deleted as she named the cafe, the other one is still running now.

Which I can see both sides of. I've had to take 4yo DS into places and ask if he can use the toilet, and he's always been allowed.

And when I was 8 1/2 months pregnant I had an appointment in Specsavers where they were running at least half an hour late for but still refused to let me use their toilet when I needed to. I ended up leaving, walking down the road to another optician and using their toilet before rebooking my appointment with them. It just seems to be to be good customer service to be kind to people, as even if they aren't spending money with you there and then, they will probably remember and come back to do so later. I've certainly never used Specsavers again since that day.

But on the other side, if that cafe is by a school and everyone is taking their children in to use the toilets without buying anything, that's not great for the cafe. This must happen on a daily basis and could put proper customers off.

[PenelopePipPop]

"I think if you are going to name and shame you should have the courage of your convictions and out yourself too.

The anonymity afforded by this site allows people to express themselves more freely than they would in RL, I think it's poor form to abuse this by snipping at businesses on such a public forum."

Completely agree.

I think there is some virtue to review sites like Tripadvisor or the product reviews on here, where the sheer volume of reviews means that users can usde the average rating as a rule of thumb. If a B&B has 100 reviews and an avergae 4* rating I think that looks pretty good. But I rarely read the actual reviews except for entertainment because there is always some twattery about towels not being the right shape, or staff in a hotel in France speaking French (the bastards) or gazpacho not being served hot. And I've only posted on TA myself to praise places where I thought the service was excellent and wanted to reward them.

But posting petty sniping about a business on MN discussion boards is unfair. The business doesn't have an automatic right of reply unless the thread is brought to their attention. And I'm not stupid enough to to decide not to use a business when I have only heard one side of the story.

The toilet one was particularly odd - the first post where she outed the business suggested that the OP really thought MNetters all over the country would be thinking 'I'm definitely crossing that obscure cafe in SW London off my list of places to go for coffee.' Unbelievably more than 95% of the British population live a considerable distance from that cafe and probably do not wish to use its toilets even if the salted caramel brownie is very stylish (how the fuck can a brownie be stylish? Does it come with matching accessories?).

[isshoes]

"And I'm not stupid enough to decide not to use a business when I have only heard one side of the story."

This is why I don't understand the vitriol directed at the OP. People make up their own minds about what to believe about a story like that. It's not like she used some Jedi mind trick to make anyone who read her thread boycott the cafe. So what's wrong with her having a rant??

[fragola]

I think the problem is that a few people all too easily seem to fall into the mob mentality and leave bad reviews all over the internet of places they have never been to, on the say so of an anonymous post on a forum. Horrible and unfair.

[SeaSickSal]

Keemanan, I don't care if you claim she's mother Teresa. As far as I know you're the same person or you're an incredibly credulous friend. I'm going to make my own mind up on the story and that one sounded odd.

It was the way that it was done was horrible too. They didn't complain to the cafe or give them a chance to sort it out, her and her sister came on here and with the absolute minimum of prompting named and shamed the place and the poor owner sat down at home opens up her laptop and she's subject to an internet hate campaign which is the first she knew of it. It could have been a misunderstanding. She was in a sandwich place, the first thing that crossed my mind was that they were talking about buttys and she misheard, perhaps because she is oversensitive.

But, no, I speak as I find and someone who could act in such a vindictive manner does not seem like a moral person to me and I have no reason to think that they would have moral scruples over lying either when they're happy to orchestrate an online hate campaign. Especially when they had given the cafe concerned absolutely no opportunity to apologise or rectify the situation before naming them and shaming them.

I thought their vindictiveness and gloating was disgraceful.

[anon2013]

fragola's put it perfectly