If we all in this together what cuts have oaps faced?

[3asAbird]

As my title says im struggling to see any.

Winter fuel allowance -stays universil-too expensive to means tesrt
same with free bus passes.

part of their social care is paid so they can leave wealth to their families

They excempt from bedroom subsidy so they allowed to under occupy and biggest group.

Pensions I think went up

This new married couples allowance maybe another additional benefit to them if they large proportion of this group.

Housing-they brought at right time probably paid off mortgage and have lots equity.

They moan about interest rates but they fortunate enough to be able to save.

If social-how many homeless pensioners are there? Are they always band a?

Maybe im being harsh and some pensioners have it hard.

But locally they have several holidays a year, holiday homes, brand new cars.

wondering how exactly we all in this together ad should there be mass turnouts under 60 to vote at next general election.

[Beastofburden]

talk on neededing less money- of course that is true. Thats why even the most generous final salary pensions schemes ( the "gold plated" ones we read about) only offer 50% of salary as a pension. As you say, no mortgage, childcare, commuting- or indeed, NI and pension deductions.

But as we all know, there is a baseline below which people are poor, without question. The poverty line for a pensioner isn't 50% of the poverty line for a younger single person.

I think saying they need 30% fewer calories is a tad mean! and in any case, they may well spend more on food as they have to buy smaller quantities instead of bulk, and may need special diets related to their age.

[3asAbird]

Mrs david carrusso- nice you to ask about my day.

After school run I walked 1.2miles home in rain with 2 under 5s.

in house doing housework and smallest child having a nap whilst trying to amuse a bored 4year old who would dearly love extra day in preschool but cant afford it.

All of my childless freinds all work in the week.

Food shopping we ok for- we dont have disposable income to go shopping for other things right now.

we all well right now so no gps today but thats another least 1mile walk each way, nightmare to get an appointment and waiting room full oaps, they dont cater very easily for people in work to get appointments.

Lots of groups toddler groups are far away and cost money.

family live 50miles away, I dont drive

I face another 2hour walk this afternoon to do school run, sods law it rain and hubbys working not sure what time hes home.

Bus drivers here seem to hate kids here anyway and restrction on buggies feel sorry for people in wheelchairs.


So dare say being sahm can be as isoalting as being an oap if on low income.

I think the bus thing some sort of sensible assessemt ie

does this person drive , have a car, in good health so they have an option. Also means test it. Does janet street porter need a bus pass? Like she claims its her right.

Im all few areduced concessionary rate but should it free free for all over 60,s full stop when train and bus prices rise for everyone else?

I have freind with disabled son now hes an adult 18 its hard to get services like daycare and respite for him.

I would much rather see money targeted better.

so lets fund daycentres and companion schemes so they not isolated and cut off. Im sure some of money wasted could target pensioners and other groups in need thats point trying to make.

Beast good point flexible working but know few people who employed do it mostly self employed do.I dont think we got to point where its easy and broadband speeds in some parts rural uk are pants.

[evilkitten]

Grennie - using those 'on the brink' ageuk figures gets you to 27%, although I'm not sure what 'on the brink' actually means. 27% is not two thirds. You also run into the trouble that you're not applying the same thresholds to other demographics, so it becomes hard to compare.

[TheFallenNinja]

What a deliciously naive standpoint the OP takes. Essentially, take more off them and give it to me.

It's shit, we are not in it together, life isn't fair, it won't be better under any other government ( just a different group will get the shaft). Suck it up.

[Talkinpeace]

beastofburden
I think saying they need 30% fewer calories is a tad mean!
No, medical fact.
I'm watching my weight and put my height and weight into a TDEE calculator and at age 20 I could eat 1900 calories but by age 70 I only needed 1300 calories to maintain the same weight.

[youretoastmildred]

MrsDavidCaruso, the part that you misunderstand is that you seem to think I have a problem with this, per se. I don't.

It is fascinating how some have become so accustomed to demonising certain sections of society that to point out a matter of fact - "they do not earn" - is seen to be conflated with "and therefore they are scum! They deserve nothing!" Nothing could be further from what I believe. I think that economic activity is the tiniest part of the sum of a person. There are many groups that do not earn - the retired, children, those in education, carers, SAHPs, the disabled, those who work in unwaged voluntary positions, those looking for work - the list goes on. I don't despise any of those people per se. And going back to the bus pass - my logic is that of course we should facilitate old people to travel, but who else needs to go places and doesn't earn? The obvious answer to me is those in education.

"that working people pay for" - this is not remotely a dig - this is how things work - just as in a family with a WOHP and a SAHP, one person brings in money but the other has just as much right to spend it - if you can't see I mean this you must have been associating with too many hatey people


beastofburden:
"Newly qualifieds in my field apparently now get £40-50k (How!!!! How!!!! envy ) and there are flats in my old block on at £250k, so the ratio has moved from 4 to 5 times salary,"

Can you see how silly you are being here? In real terms, the starting salary has dropped - demonstrated relative to housing. Yet you still see it as a lot, because it looks like a large number relative to the absolute number you received (presumably). can't you see that this is nonsense? There is nothing to be envious about with a number that actually has less purchasing power. I think this sort of double think is at the root of a lot of misconceptions at the moment

[evilkitten]

The point about lower home ownership in 1970s equating to hardship is a bit of a red herring. The housing market has changed hugely between the 1970s and now.

Renting was a serious option then; there were rent controls, and council housing provided stable and affordable accommodation for working families. It was long term. Today, six month ASTs with very little security mean that rental is designed primarily for the landlord - nobody in their right mind would choose to rent now unless they had to.

It's another area where legislation is needed to provide stability & security to the younger generations. I've known young couples to be evicted after having children as the landlord specifies "no children, no pets, no DSS". This is not a way to start life.

[3asAbird]

I dont want extra money.

But when I see cuts on families, disabled.

ow the attack on unemployed when most want to work.

now under 25s too

its seems unfair.

yes admit maybe im being naive but in the begging they talked about fairness.

nearly 4 years in as next election 2015 wondering wheres the fairness.

People will accept the cuts if they feel its fair

they not only want to clear defecit they aiming for surplus.

I think things will get harder still as inflation is not under control .

in real terms every things going up , wages are stagnating dont know many with 2/5%annual payrise!know a few payfreezes.

I wonder what the uk will be like in 10years time?

people say we dont respect the eldesrly in uk.

But theres just as much contemt for kids.

so much for being a family freindly governenment.

also sort of crazy cack handed cuts.

I so wanted the to work and feel very dissapointed.

[georgettemagritte]

Special diets maybe for people in their 80s or in poor health....my parents are bouncing fit in their early 60s and their "special diet" is twice my own body weight per week in Waitrose speciality ready meals! My dad spends his winter fuel allowance on fine wines :p They moan like crazy that they are getting the worst deal of everyone even when one points out ONS statistical evidence to the contrary. Despite being fitter than most 20-somethings and going everywhere by car they will defend their free bus passes as what they are entitled to to the hilt. (It actually costs national and local government money to provide these, in grants to transport companies, even if they are never used.) Now when they go on about deserving the bus passes I point out that these are funded at the direct cost of cuts to services for disabled children and they pretend not to hear me :p

[nonmifairidere]

Georgette - spending your 'inheritance' are they? Tut, tut, how dare they.

[Grennie]

A much fairer thread would be - the rich - what cuts have they suffered?

Hint: Bugger all

[Grennie]

And Georgette - do you support homes being sold to pay for residential care as I do?

[youretoastmildred]

Grennie, that would be an interesting thread. Start it!

[Beastofburden]

Can you see how silly you are being here? In real terms, the starting salary has dropped - demonstrated relative to housing. Yet you still see it as a lot, because it looks like a large number relative to the absolute number you received (presumably). can't you see that this is nonsense? There is nothing to be envious about with a number that actually has less purchasing power. I think this sort of double think is at the root of a lot of misconceptions at the moment

No- just being light hearted. Starting salary hasn't dropped relative to purchasing power more generally. Housing is so weirdly priced that it has outstripped the rise in salaries. But anyone who wants to argue that salaries in the financial sector in London haven't gone up much during the past 30 years is welcome to try

My point was actually that those of us saying how cheap our flats were back in the day- not so much. They were very nearly as unaffordable for us then as they are now. And we were graduates with professional qualifications. My sister, a graduate but with no further qualifications, was not able to buy her own place until her 40s.

[Beastofburden]

georgette understood- rich people getting universal benefits is bloody annoying.

Like Nigella Lawson getting child benefit, for instance.

If you compare the richest people in one age cohort with the poorest from another we are bound to find unfairness.

ban universal benefits .

[Beastofburden]

talk I think saying they need 30% fewer calories is a tad mean!
No, medical fact. yes- I know its a medical fact, my rapidly fattening midriff is proving this for me as we speak

I just think its mean to cut their pocket money as they only need two carrots these days . They are more likely to need a gluten free diet, and cant buy bulk bargains, so I would say the budget evens out.

[3asAbird]

George you so right goes to greedy first bus here.

They moan to improve services they need more users,

But they so costly and crap.

never quite get time cut offs as people at peak time commuting to work.

after that most using bus for leisure ad oaps may not have same time restrictions on travel they can be more flexible and wait until after 9.

so much money must be wasted in bus passes either through non use or more wealthy groups taking advantage of them.

On ocassion take the bus when chatting oaps can be quite sweet they cant believe how expensive fares are and tell me how much they love their bus pases but after time guess if theres some thins you dont pay for you dont notice the rises that affect everyone else its bit like analogy asking pm what cost of pint of milk is.

Im baffled why travel for school kids is no longer funded.

I had free bus pass for college

There seems to be huge debate over benefits that only those who earn count. If sahm ifs lifestyle choice, if retire early when they could thats fine.

Mrs david I would never be as unfair to say you choose where you live ie an island yet for people on jsa /under 25s ok to force them t5ell em get on their bike.

[georgettemagritte]

I don't expect any inheritance! The reality is that the current generation of pensioners will end up selling their houses to pay for some of their care.

I support that in the present circumstances. But what I would really like to see instead is the following, just to start with:

• a short sharp housing crash. People think this would be disastrous for them, but for the majority of older people it would simply mean accepting a paper loss - which would be balanced out by cheaper future housing costs (eg for a care home. Private care home chains and businesses are typically highly leveraged against their property values, which massively increases their costs).
• abolishing second home council tax discounts and tax but to let heavily.
• substantially lower housing costs would mean younger generations could pay more tax long term to support state welfare provision, as well as paying more into their own pensions and spending more into the economy, starting businesses, train and retrain etc.
• abolish IHT and levy CGT at standard rates on "inheritances", encouraging older people not to stockpile assets. But because of lower housing prices inheritances would not matter in the same way because housing would be more affordable without them. As it was in the 60s and 70s when IHT was very high.
• abolish higher tuition fees. Until this year the total higher education budget was around 3.9bn.( Capital grants to transport companies were over 4bn in comparison). And the HE sector creates wealth and boosts our future competitiveness.

-means-test WFA and travel.

The above will not happen as the over-50s are the biggest voting bloc. It could save them in the long run, however, as without a radical reset of the system now, the effects will be felt in 10-15 years when the voting mass shifts to the under-50s. Seriously, a bit of short term pain now would save a coming systemic collapse of pensions, health and social care looming from 2025 onwards, but it won't happen because there is too much investment in the status quo.

[Beastofburden]

georgette I think as a parent of adult kids, I wouldn't mind if my house crashed in value. I am currently saving all the spare money I earn between now and retirement, purely to help my DC with a house deposit. Of course I would rather they (I) paid less.

The problem will always be the recent buyers who will have debt on houses that are no longer worth enough. We saw what that did to hardworking families in the US.

[Grennie]

I agree with most of your suggestions. But they won't happen. Many middle class younger people are bothered about inheritance and complained vociferously at the idea of not inheriting houses because they would be used to pay for care.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

a short sharp housing crash..............

so lots of houses for sale and no banks lending.
tell me how that would work?

[Beastofburden]

If we are talking about ways to make housing more affordable, I would also suggest:

• 40 year mortgages with 1% deposits. If we are all going to retire at 75 instead of 60, why stick at 25 years?
• far more high quality state rental accommodation, to price the bad landlords out of business

[Grennie]

The big issue is the sale of council houses. We need to build more council houses for rent. That would have a very positive impact on house prices. Because the issue at the moment is we just don't have enough housing where people want to live. It is a supply and demand situation. And increasing divorces and more single adults are also pushing up the demand for housing.

[kilmuir]

OP a mile is not far to walk!
If you can't afgord your children they you should have used contraception. The likes of which was not available to the old people you demonise and neither was child benefit, wtc.........

[nonmifairidere]

Georgette - yes, cheap shot, I know. Actually, totally agree with your last post and I'd reintroduce some form of rent control. Never gonna happen, though.