AIBU to expect teachers to strike in the school holidays and not in term time.

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow]

Well am I?

Considering that teachers are always insisting that they work during the school holidays, how come they never strike during the school holidays and always wait until term time to do so?

Odd that!

[manicinsomniac]

knitknack - I don't think it's hard to understand, it's just that it's
a) a pointless distinction as we get 12 monthly payments anyway and
b) actually damages our cause. I just worked out that as I am only being paid for 9 months not 12 then I actually earn about £4000 for each working month (net, not take home). Which is equivalent to a £49,000 salary!!! So striking for more pay is suddenly made to seem absolutely ludicrous, instead of only slightly so!

[jacks365]

Knitknack as a parent who has children who have gone on residentials can I say thank you to you and every other teacher.

I am not a teacher but even I'm aware that teachers are paid pro rata. For what they do the knowledge and work they put in they are grossly underpaid and undervalued. More to the point though the changes going on will destroy the education we have in this country

[flipchart]

Well if you've falsified sick leave to claim back leave, that's fraud.
Nobody said anyone had falsified sick leave!

[JakeBullet]

Are you bored OP?

What a stupid thread, how ignorant can you be?

Teachers are not paid for their holidays .....or for the extra hours they put in during term time in lesson preparation etc. they are paid for 39hours a week and put in around 50-60 hours.

I am not a teacher but I do know some teachers, and I know how hard they work.

Personally I would prefer them to work to rule, no extra hours of lesson prep, no after school activities, no trips etc.

But then you would be on here moaning about that as well.

[jjuice]

My sil is a primary teacher and has recently been working 75 hours a week. No overtime pay. Its a disgrace!

[pooka]

YABU totally unreasonable.

You really find it odd that the teachers would choose to strike during the school term? How... odd.

[ivykaty44]

If you get pg as a teacher and go on maternity leave, then you have to take any surplus annual leave before you return to work, this is outlined and you can check with HR

If you didn't get holiday pay for twenty eight days, this wouldn't happen

No you do not get paid for all sixty five days holiday but teachers do get paid for twenty eight days out of those sixty five days.

[KinkyDorito]

maniac the strike isn't about more pay? Also, as has been said, we are a postgraduate profession. Our pay should be comparable to professional salaries. At 49k, as you have worked out, for your 9 months, you must be a more experienced teacher. Do you not think you work the hours and need the professional knowledge to command that salary? It's totally reasonable. But, you aren't paid for your holidays either, like other jobs would be, so unless you pick up another job, you are still earning your annual total.

[knitknack]

Manic - i guess you COULD read it that way... but most of the rubbish that is talked about teachers revolves around the "13 weeks paid holiday" rubbish which DOES make us seem like whingers! And why SHOULDN'T we be on a decent salary? We do an incredible hard job (also incredibly rewarding, but that's just a perk :) ) I think it helps to make people stop and think about what they ask of us when they realise that we're only paid for a certain amount of time. I don't understand why teachers aren't PROUD to be worth a decent salary! We ARE!

[Floggingmolly]

How can you strike on your day off?
Bit hard to have any impact when nobody's actually going to notice...

[gordyslovesheep]

I am a lone parent on a moderate income...the strike has cost me £80 in childcare fees...

I support the teachers 100% and don't mind the cost when I consider the wider cost to my kids education by letting Gove run riot with his idiotic ideas

Good luck x

[sashh]

Can I also point out that a strike in the holidays would mean there would be no politicians about to notice.

[manicinsomniac]

I understood that pay was one of the many reasons for the strike? Fair enough, if not, the whole term-time/holiday argument becomes irrelevant.

But no, I think £49K would be too high a salary for what I do. I'm not that experienced a teacher (7 years) but I run 2 departments so it all adds up. Granted, I have no idea what other professions get paid or what they do (I'm a single parent and haven't left the education system since the age of 3 so nothing else to compare it to!) but nearly £50K just seems like a stupidly high level of pay for an ordinary job. Willing to be proved wrong on that though.

[drivinmecrazy]

whilst I support the right to strike and trust that teachers are indeed fighting for the best education for all our children, i do have a genuine question (no agenda just interested)

why is it such a terrible thing that teachers as a profession should be accountable. I'm thinking in particular about giving head teachers the power to reward great teachers and a greater freedom to get rid of under performing members of staff.

I ask this as a parent who's child has suffered an horrendous academic year with a largely absent teacher who has a reputation for long absences due to stress related problems, spread across several year. Our children have been subjected to a string of supply teachers, which I'm sure you will all agree is really not conducive to a great year for 6 year olds. In this instance the HT told me that unfortunately (her words) she had no power to get rid of aforementioned teacher because she was so clever with how she took her leaves of absence and protected by her union.

When this teacher did turn up she was wholly inadequate in many ways.

So again I genuinely want to know why a HT should not have to authority to hire and fire with greater autonomy, while at the same time rewarding the many teachers who do go above and beyond to give our children such a fantastic education?

Forgive me if this isn't one of the areas teachers are contesting, but it's my understanding as a profession you are against this

[KinkyDorito]

manic I'm sorry you think running 2 departments and teaching is an ordinary job and not worth what you are paid. That sounds like middle management which is very well paid in other professions. Plus, you aren't on that income because you don't get paid for your holidays? Other jobs do. It's such a strange thing to argue about when you know what it is like to be a teacher, unless you get away without putting in the hours. If so, I want to know your tricks. I have a lower TLR and am on UPS2 about to go through final threshold, and I haven't had a day off since we started back. My husband doesn't want me to be a teacher - he is sick of the impact it has on all of our lives in terms of the time it steals from us. I work every evening. It is crazy hours and I have a first class degree and a masters with distinction in my subject. I think I am worth every penny of my salary.

Pay is a reason for the strike - but not MORE pay as you said. We want to keep the pay scales the same for new teachers.

[KinkyDorito]

drivein Teachers already are accountable. The choice to subject your children to a string of supply teachers is a managerial one - probably because they want to keep supply costs down. The teacher has every right to be off sick, but the school should pay for proper supply - a trained teacher on a long term supply contract - rather than taking chances with cheap agency staff or cover supervisors. And you are now made to feel like it is the teacher's fault, when it is the Head's decision how they handle the situation. They could choose to change the role of the teacher in the school and have a year long cover, or permanently make the changes. It didn't have to be that way.

The students suffering for teacher absence is entirely down to management.

I'm not denying there are some chancers out there; there are everywhere. But it could have been handled differently. The very fact that you know why the teacher is absent shows mismanagement as it is supposed to be confidential. By having those kinds of conversations with you, the Head is putting themselves in a rubbish position should they try to terminate the teacher's contract and get taken to tribunal.

[KinkyDorito]

Teachers can be fired, but Heads must follow their protocol without leaving themselves wide open for tribunals.

[CreatureRetorts]

I think teachers should work to rule instead of strike.

It'll get people's attention when stuff isn't done and parents won't be able to complain about having to spend the day with their little darlings.

I'd never be a teacher. They do an amazing job - look around you people, on the whole we are well educated. I don't know many idiots. Yet, they're demonised. Ffs. They are basically trying to do their jobs in an environment of hostility where Gove is constantly mithering and whining and coming out with shite.
Why not say, yes most teachers are great but we want to make sure all teachers are. Most schools are good but we want all schools to be good. Not all teachers are crap, money grabbing lazy feckers.

FFS.

[LoopyLoopyLoopy]

Sorry, the 'you' in my post was referring to teachers, not 'you' OP or 'one' (general).

Teachers cannot choose when to take annual leave. They cannot reclaim sick pay etc. from holidays because it is (mostly) not included in their salary.

I think the OP gets that now though.

I bet you would be interested to read the terms and conditions of teachers in Australia? NSW teachers pay and conditions

Starting salary $59,706 - 34,485pounds, UK is 21588 pounds
Top of main scale $89,050 - 51433pounds, UK is 31552pounds,

Also this: "In addition to four weeks annual leave, there is no requirement for teachers to attend school during student vacation periods. Additional leave entitlements include leave without pay, parental leave, long service leave (after seven years service), carers leave and study leave, to name a few."

Of course, Australia is expensive. But the fact is, their teachers enjoy a much fairer deal in terms and conditions because they have strong unions. Teachers as a profession are supported by the population, and are so when strikes are needed.

[KinkyDorito]

Loopy As teaching is regarded as a poorly paid profession in Australia, they can get financial help with housing too. I soooooooo want to move. My friend just has.

[LoopyLoopyLoopy]

Ps. Most teachers simply can't work to rule in the UK. I've tried, as have previous colleagues. You simply can't get anything done, and the pressure to be outstanding all of the bloody time is so hight that everyone is afraid of being in the firing line when the redundancies come round.

[FactOfTheMatter]

"I think teachers should work to rule instead of strike. "

Teachers have been working to rule (or taking "action short of strike action") for some time.

[Souredstones]

Can I charge my school for costs incurred in childcare seeing as they charge me if I take the kids out in term time?

[DrSeuss]

Ooh, fabby idea! Imagine, all those degrees and not one of us thought of that! Durr!