My friends think I'm BU in asking them to change our restaurant plans for my DD

[EweHaveGoatToBeKiddin]

Last week my 4 friends and I arranged to go out for dinner tonight. Not for anything special, just because we haven't see each other in ages and fancied a catch up.

I told them that i wouldn't be able to get a babysitter and they said that they expected and wanted me to bring 5yo dd along as they were missing her too.

Anyway, we emailed each other links to various local restaurants so we could check out prices and menus. We all agreed on an Italian place.

So i printed off the menu a few days ago and have been going over it with dd. I've let her pick her meal in advance and we've 'practiced' how to behave in the restaurant and I've shown her pictures of it online. We've also discussed things she can do while waiting for the food being served such as taking a colouring book or reading book. She's been to restaurants before and loves doing her little script of saying hello and ordering from the waiter/waitress. But because this is a new place, i wanted her to be prepared to prevent her getting too anxious.

Anyway, all was going well until this morning when i awoke to another group email. One of my friends have said that she was at an Italian restaurant last night with her parents and can't really face another Italian meal. Another friend chipped in with 'Yeah, i feel the same. TBH i'm not really into pizza and pasta anyway. How about a Chinese place?'

So then a dozen other emails followed containing various links for local Chinese places. By the time i'd managed to compose a polite email, everyone was pretty much set on a certain Chinese place.

I'd had a look on the website, and tbh there's nothing there that dd would eat. She doesn't like things with batter, not much of a meat eater, doesn't like spicy things, doesn't like chips, doesn't like rice, noodles or curries etc. And I'm not really keen on anything there either, but would have put up with it if dd wasn't involved too.

Anyway, i sent them a message explaining that i felt it was a bit short notice to be changing plans. DD was already prepared for the Italian place, had selected her meal, had been going on about it for days, had already seen all the pictures of the restaurant's interior. And that she wouldn't eat anything from there anyway.

They came back with the following responses:

"Feed her before she comes then just get her an ice cream or something while we're all eating."

My response to this: "But she was really looking forward to eating out with us, and tbh i don't think i can make ice cream last 2 hours."

"If she gets a bit antsy, we don't mind."

"It's not just a case of her getting 'antsy', it's the fact I'm going to be changing her plans with only a half day's notice, and all that preparation I'd done last week was for nothing. She will be incredibly anxious and upset for the whole meal."

"Bring her a toy to stop her getting bored."

"She can't play with toys alone. And she's already picked a colouring book to bring, but I don't think that will keep her calm and amused for 2 hours."

"Fine. We'll just go the Italian place."

This is then followed by a few 'pffffts' and eye roll smilies.

I feel horrid and guilty. Tbh i want to send them an email just saying that I'd rather they all went to their Chinese place and we could rearrange a group meal for another time. but if i do, it'll just be met with passive aggressive. "Don't be silly, we wouldn't dream of it' etc etc.

I actually don't want to go at all now. Or I'd rather just me and dd head out for a meal. if i do go, the whole atmosphere will be off and it will be like i dragged them all along. And when it comes to ordering, they will probably huff and puff about it because they've openly said they don't want to eat anything from there.

I genuinely don't know who's being unreasonable here. the fact I'm feeling so guilty about it makes me think that I'm the one in the wrong, but then again i feel guilty about everything.

[Spinkle]

Only 'restaurant' we can do with DS is McDonalds. He only likes beige food (though we recently celebrated when he tried red: pizza)

He is on the spectrum. Anxiety is a huge issue.

[CupOCoffee]

FormaLurkaSat 28-Sep-13 16:47:28 I know it's not the topic but how can anyone not find something to like at a Chinese particularly since most have an 'English'section ie omelette and chips, chicken, gravy and chips.

Erm, an autistic person?

[MotheringShites]

OP YANBU of course. Please don't think though, that your friends are just being gits. They just have NO IDEA about life with kids, especially a child with ASD.

I have a small, close group of friends, none of whom had kids when my DTs were born. There were many situations like the one you've described. However, five years on a few of them have DCs of their own and we are back on the same page, friendships stronger than ever.

You don't sound like you have tons of support and lots to deal with. Do some eye-rolling of your own at their lack of understanding but hang on to them anyway. Perhaps a few years from now they'll realise what it's really like!

Enjoy your night out with your DD.

[TheBigJessie]

FormaLurker You sound as if you're trying to catch the OP out. The OP explicitly mentioned she had found some things her daughter would either eat or felt willing to try.

"She doesn't like things with batter, not much of a meat eater, doesn't like spicy things, doesn't like chips, doesn't like rice, noodles or curries etc" doesn't automatically preclude everything at Italian restaurants, does it? Although I can quite see that it does at a Chinese restaurant.

[SpottyDottie]

You have prepared your DD to go to an Italian restaurant. I think that all you can do is take your DD there and meet your friends another time.
otherwise she might become unsettled? My DS has Aspergers. I have had to pre-prepare him for many things. Otherwise we had meltdowns which are very hard to deal with. I was going to suggest you may have over prepared your DD but I don't know her and what you need to do to help her, only you know that.

I do get the impression though that your friends do not know your DD very well at all. You need to explain more to them. I don't think they will understand otherwise especially as you say they aren't mums yet either.

[Nerfmother]

Do you know what? I can't be bothered to defend myself against this kind of attack cup I have tried to put my views as the parent of an autistic child (just see my threads in sen to see how bloody 'ignorant' I am) but of course that doesn't matter. In my world, ds couldn't cope with choosing a meal and then finding it was unavailable: he couldn't cope with looking at the decor in too much detail and then find the tables moved round. We can only post what we know and what we experience.
I won't finish - post would be deleted.

[FrussoHathor]

Nerfmother Sat 28-Sep-13 15:10:52 Really? I genuinely think that you need to leave some room for change, and that restaurants do change menus/run out of stuff etc - I don't mean don't prep but I personally wouldn't take ds with him expecting to eat a particular 'thing'. And no I am not unsupportive. I do think op could have avoided criticism by mentioning asd in the first place/

For goes sake! You do realise that it isn't choice don't you? And that you can't force children with sen to be nt just because the other isn't convenient.

"not much fun" "leave room for change" ?!

How unbelievable intolerant and ignorant.

Actually I agree with nerfmother the posibility that something might change needs to be introduced. As a parent of a DC with ASD you cant control everything. As much as you'd like to. I've found that the more I prep dd the more can go wrong, and the more likely the chance of a meltdown occurring. and with my dd they are loud and violent there needs to be room for change, to enable DC to know that change can happen, and it is okay, and allow/teach DC the ability to manage/accept the change.

[SummerRain]

I have two SN children and completely agree with Nerfmother. Too much preparing and expectation would be a disaster for us. I have to go the complete opposite with my boys and prepare them for the unexpected, as to be perfectly honest no matter how well you plan there will always be something that happens which you did/could not anticipate.

An item could be off menu, the restaurant might have a party of 30 booked at the next table who are getting off menu items like cake and singing happy birthday unexpectedly, an expected guest could be late or arrive upset due to events at home, the food might not taste the way the child is expecting or have unsettling garnishes that staff forget to remove despite instruction, music could be playing that the child objects to (or in ds1's case he wants to jump around the restaurant to!), a drink could be spilled..... the list is endless and if you tell the child they can expect the evening to go in a particular way then in reality you are setting yourself up for failure.

In order to cope as they grow up and experience new situations it is essential that rigid children be taught how to cope with unexpected situations.

Of course that's not going to happen due to one restaurant meal but needs to start gradually at home and school. Routine and planning are fantastic for SN kids, as long as they are supplemented by developing coping strategies when things aren't going to plan and teaching the child to accept that some events simply cannot be planned to the minutest detail.

[MidniteScribbler]

Getting back to the OP's topic, the one thing I think she did wrong is not spell out exactly why the change in restaurant would not be a good thing. Faffing around with not liking ice cream and not playing with toys by herself do sound like the child (or parent) is just being difficult. After the first email suggesting a change came through the response should have clearly spelled out why the change would be a bad thing for a child with autism and what preparation has been done to ensure that everyone enjoyed their night out.

Not everyone knows the finer details of asd (or even what the initials asd stand for!), and it is a "spectrum" so just because your neighbour has a cousin who had a child with autism who ate chips doesn't mean that every child is the same, but people need to be told in very blunt terms what it means and what the impacts are on that child. My friend has a child with a peanut allergy and said that she has found that it's only when she started pointing out that he could die if he ingested peanuts that people seemed to take it seriously.

[SilverApples]

The OP is doing her best to help her daughter eat out in an unfamiliar place, she sounds like a worrier and a bit lacking in confidence, and the child is only 5.
We all have different ideas on what works with our children, and we know that when it comes to the spectrum, generalising is not necessarily a useful approach.

I agree that teaching children on the spectrum coping strategies, that things can change and there is nothing you can do to make it right, and understanding that you can't control the universe however much they want and need you to are all necessary in the long term.
I also have confidence that of the OP found, despite the preparations and care before hand, that something had altered to the point of her DD not coping, that she'd just leave, quietly and efficiently.
That's what I'd have done when my DS was 5, because he wasn't up for adaptation and compromise at that age in an unfamiliar setting. I'd have prepped him fully, and if and when the shit hit the fan, I'd leave before it was a problem.
Now he's an adult, and only those really good at Spot-The-Aspie can tell.
He even surprises me on occasion by being creative and managing very challenging and unexpected stuff on the hoof and independently.

[LeGavrOrf]

That's a great post silver.

[manicinsomniac]

YANBU and that is without even considering the ASD aspect, which I don't think is relevant to the 'are you being unreasonable' question at all.

Your friends not only accepted but expressed enthusiasm that your 5 year old would be coming with you. They agreed a child friendly time and spent a long time deliberating over and selecting a restaurant which they then knew a 5 year old with a limited palate was looking forward to going to. The day of the meal one fully grown adult decided that she didn't fancy Italian food because of a conscious decision that fully grown adult made to eat the same cuisine the night before. The whole group of adults then made the decision to change at the last minute to a restaurant which they should have known (assuming that they know your daughter reasonably well) the 5 year old would not like. That to me is selfish behaviour on the part of the adults, regardless of autism.

[WandaDoff]

Silver gets it

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

To the people who didn't get that the OP's DD had autism and flamed her..

If you thought OP just had anxiety, why did that give you the green light to be a bastard to her?



OP I thought you worded the email very well.

You need to find some mums of kids with ASD to hang out with, it is good when people really get it :)

[MokuMoku]

How did it go OP?

Hope you had a nice night!

[WetGrass]

Late to the thread - but this is the clearest case on here in a while of STEP AWAY FROM THE EMAILS. It's not a timesaver when it goes around in circles of hurt feelings and bemusement. Only way to handle it is to phone each person individually and use 'smiling voice' to defuse the tension.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

Good morning all
Our talk guidelines for those who may need a read
A link to our This is my child campaign for those who may not have seen it.
And a reminder that if there's one thing we can all do with, whether we are BU or not, it's some moral support.

Peace and love

[Onebuddhaisnotenough]

Hope you and DD had a nice evening OP

[SauvignonBlanche]

I hope you and your DD are OK?

[Threalamandaclarke]

YANBU
I would cancel. Why is it ok for your friend to change plans last minute on a whim but your dd, who is a little kid, has to just suck it up?
I honestly cba to go if it were me.

[Threalamandaclarke]

Ops. Also just seen you explain about the asd. Well, is this news to your friends?
Let them go for their crummy Chinese. Just cry off sick or something.

[MokuMoku]

Amanda the dinner was last night.