To think that this may possibly, perhaps, could be perceived as Bad Form?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

DD2 brought a school trip letter home yesterday - 10 places to bexawarded on a first come, first served basis.

She was 8th in the queue, the pupil before her handed in her slip and 3 extras for friends.

It takes a lot for her to get out of bed early, and she really wanted this opportunity - one that her sister experienced 2 years ago, and I really wanted then tu have the same chance.

Gah

AIBU to be a bit miffed?

[kali110]

Lis so u dont think the op should ask other parents? Wouldnt it be better to get a group?

[lisylisylou]

I don't interact with other parents in matters relating to problems or school business. It has the potential to break up friendships. I would deal with the head on this one as a parent and make sure you follow it up with the head. I'm a governor and it is down to the head to deal with the day to day running of the school. You could also raise it as an official complaint in writing as a parent! That way the head has to respond in writing. I can imagine a lot of parents would be upset and I would treat this as sticking up for your kid! If you only deal with the head then it must remain private and that way you are not compromising your position

[kali110]

And iv never heard of schools doing it this way

[quoteunquote]

Why not make it fair, and put all interested pupil's details into a hat?

those who have previously been chosen for something sit it out, unless places are left after all the others have been given places, then their names can go in the hat.

Quite a few years ago we made the school change from first come first served, because as a rural school, lots of children would go home on the school bus, children picked up by child minders, after school club, clutching their forms,

Only to find the following day, children who had been picked up by a parent, will have filled the form in imminently and hand it into the office, great for us, we do pick ups, but terrible unfair on other children.

and if there is demand then run the trip with more places.

[Saffyz]

YANBU

[kali110]

I did agree with you in first place that the whole system was unfair in the first place, but i didnt think though that it was unfair that the girls in front did what they did.

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

kali, that's a bit insulting really.

I am certainly able to see the unfairness of a system whether my child us disadvantaged by it or not. FWIW, I'm pushing for a fair system to allocate places - if that means thst my DD misses out, then so be it. I think it's reasonable to be irked Iif she misses out under an unfair procedure,

Thus us the first time I have become aware of this procedure as, as mentioned in a previous post, my eldest was predetermined her place, and didn't have to apply for the short supply places.

[WilsonFrickett]

bundaberg despite my earlier, serious posts about how this system is unfair and potentially discriminatory, I would have loved the first kid in the line to have just handed over 10 slips then skipped back to her seat. Then 9 of the class to stoat in late after the bell .

I think I have an odd sense of humour because I am sitting here giggling away at that

[kali110]

If ops child hAd had their form handed in i bet it wouldnt be unfair then. Its an unfair system to do things on the whole.

[bundaberg]

no, that's really unfair. would they have thought it was ok if number 1 in the queue had handed in 10 slips for other people?

[jeee]

Was the system the same last year when your DD did get a place? Because if it was, I don't really think you can complain.

[kali110]

Dont think fcfs is a very good system and certainly not fair. Really should be names in a hat.
I dont think its unfair for a student to hand forms in for others as you dont know the circumstances for why the other studrnts couldnt be there.

[MrsOakenshield]

nothing wrong with FCFS but there have to be ground rules. The libraries in my borough were handing out free tickets for the viewing gallery for the Shard. It was made perfectly clear how many tickets per library there would be, and how many tickets per person (I think it was 2 or 4).

It doesn't sound like this was the case here, and Mrs A sounds a bit feeble to be honest - whoever was taking the slips should have said to child 7 'sorry, I can take your slip only, as your friends aren't here in the queue' and that would have been that.

Hurumph on your behalf.

[ThisIsMySpareName]

We always did names in hats for our residential trips at school, although I do remember when they were trying to organise the skiing trip and only about three people had put their names forward, we all got hauled into the hall and asked why none of us wanted to go skiing - teachers couldn't understand it as it had always been really popular and if they didn't get enough interest it wouldn't go ahead.

Turned out someone had started a rumour that if you went skiing it reduced your chances of going on the French trip which everyone wanted to go on, so no-one opted for skiing.

Teachers kept trying to re-assure kids that it wouldn't impact on their chances of getting on the French trip, but I'm not sure whether people really believed them. Don't know whether the skiing trip ending up happening or not (as I had absolutely no interest in being cold for a week whether I got to go to France or not!)

[reelingintheyears]

Names in a hat always fairest.

DDs school used to let this shite happen, one year they even let the girls choose who they wanted to go with.

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

reasonS

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

Thanks you lot.

I have spokedn to head of MFL who is organising trip, although the slips were handed into the finance office.

9 and 10 were her best friends, so I can easily speak to those parents.

Mrs A was agreed with me that FCFS was not the ideal system, but had always worked out ok in previous years.

To give a bt more info - the pupils visit one of 3 European countries next June - 35 to each country - there are 4 MFLs at the school - thse doing Japanese are guaranteed to go to a certain country (their second MFL), leaving 10 places open for the other pupils. The reason I would really like DD2 to go to this country - this is the language that she'd like to do to GCSE, this is the country DD1 went to (as one of the predetermined places, so I haven't experienced this before) and I would like them to have the same opportunities. Also, the city which she would be visiting as her second choice, is where we spent our annual holiday a month ago, so she's already had that experience, iyswim.

Mrs A understood my concerns and said she's investigate on Tuesday which is the cut-off point for the slips to be handed in and review it then. She also said that as the system was advertised as a FCFS it would be difficult to alter this, although sje would consider a different system in future.

I then felt I had to point out the child handing in3 slips, which she agreed was unaccpetable. But did not really clarify how this would be addressed. I said that the fact that a pupil was handing in for other children emphasised the unfairness of the system, as perhaps they had other commitments in school/travel arrangements etc.

I don't think Mrs A knows I am a governor, and I certainly didn't mention it - I will address this as a parent, but I am determined to raise this at the next meeting as a process that may need reconsidering - particularly from the potential discriminatory POV.

Thanks again, everyone.

[nickelbabe]

and this:

• Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 19-Sep-13 11:54:22
  
  I don't think the fact that you are a governor has any bearing on this. My Mum was a governor for eight years at our secondary and was openly critical of school process where she felt it was poor and worked hard to get things changed.
  
  A governing body is supposed to hold the SMT to account, not just sit there nodding along while poor decisions are made and poor process allowed to continue.
  
  Go in and complain as a parent, just as you would if you weren't a governor.*

[LeGavrOrf]

I would complain about this. Your role as governor has nowt to do with it. You have got a genuine reason for grievance.

Agree find out who children 9 and 10 were and get support from those parents if possible.

Silly teacher should have only accepted the name of the child and not the friends.

[nickelbabe]

It is definitely not fair.

you in your position of governor should be stamping that one out.

in what world does "first come first served" mean "if your fried gets there she can bagsy your place so you don't have to bother"????

If they couldn't be bothered to stand in the queue, then they shouldn't have been allowed to have places - the next time they do this, then it should be "you have to be there yourself - no friends handing in forms for you"

Seriously Chaos - complain to the hills on this one.

[stayathomegardener]

Sorry fast...Great minds

[jennycoast]

I used to be a governor, and we often discussed things which had come up because of our experiences as parents in the school. In fact some of our more robust policies came about as a result. It is one of the reasons why they have parent governors. You're not saying "my daughter ought to be going because I'm a governor" are you. It's more "I've seen that some processes are not fair, and it is our responsibility as governors to ensure that all pupils have fair access".

[stayathomegardener]

Grill your child for names of No's 9 and 10 and then stand right behind those parents and nod at appropriate times whilst they complain

[Spatsky]

It is an unfair system, but suspect OP would not be considering complaining if her child had made the cut for the trip, therefore I think it is much better approached as a parent than as a Governor.

I think approaching the problem as a Governor only really has credibility if it doesn't arise as a result of that Governor's own child missing out on something - rightly or wrongly.