Aibu to think that sueing the church over gay marriage is not acceptable?

[Orlux]

Here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383686/Millionaire-gay-fathers-sue-Church-England-allowing-married-church.html


I supported the right of gay couples to have same rights as heterosexual ones, but I feel this is going to far. Plus my religious friends (I'm agnostic) are now having a go at my naivety.

[Wbdn28]

brothers and sisters meeting up; not aware of the fact that they are related

If they go through a clinic for an egg donor then that's pretty unlikely.

Anyway, why would that be a gay problem in particular? There are probably a lot more straight men fathering half-siblings who don't know they're related.

[Orlux]

Wbdn28 this is true.

[Wbdn28]

Unless they are regular churchgoers who contribute and are active members of the congregation ( they are not ) then they are ''entitled'' to want to use a church for whatever reason.

If that were true, it would apply equally to both straight and gay couples. The CofE is supposed to be there for everyone, unlike the churches that aren't linked to the state. It's not for us to judge other people's reasons for attending. You never know whether now and again, a couple or their family and friends might be inspired by a welcoming church to come afterwards some other time.

[ChangeRearrange]

Orlux

I really want to ask you whether you have ever been faced with infertility.

I also want to ask you whether you have ever been faced with the extremely difficult decisions that one has to make when having an assisted pregnancy.

I also want to ask you what the definition of a parent actually is and then ask you to consider all those children raised in loving caring homes by people who are not their biological parents.

How those children would feel if 'Orlux* ruled the world and said - 'actually, that person you call Mum, Dad, Stepdad. Pete' whatever, isn't your parent, and you can't call them that. Your parent is the person that supplied the biology to have you.

THAT is denying the child the rights.

I also want to ask you if you know anything about the laws that govern the donation of gametes in this country.

BUT I actually think you might just be being a bit goady now.

I love having a good discussion and have had my views changed and challenged on MN. But I really can't be arsed when someone is being knowingly offensive and goady. It does i'm afraid feel a little like you are doing that. Sorry if i'm wrong.

Thanks for the opportunity to think about my religion a bit. i enjoyed it.


Off to do the hoovering

[sorrelthemop]

It is fundamental to a child's identity to know about the people who created it. It is lunacy to suggest that a child who doesn't know either its mother or it's father is perfectly happy with that. Adopted children are frequently found to be searching for their birth (biological) parents. Goodness only knows how confusing it must be for a child to have two mothers through egg donation then a womb mother too.

How many of you grew up knowing both your parents? Did you take this for granted? I grew up without a father because he died when I was an infant. Not knowing him has been a great cause of sadness for me my whole life. I still feel as though I'm only half a person.

Such arrogance to suggest that a child should be denied its birthright.

These two people come across as being supremely arrogant. I hope it trips them up one day.

[Wbdn28]

Goodness only knows how confusing it must be for a child to have two mothers through egg donation then a womb mother too.

Actually, the couple can decide to use a known egg donor and to work with a surrogate who wants to keep in touch.

[ChangeRearrange]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, there is a 'right to know' now in the UK, isn't there?

Yes, and one is heavily screen, counselled and given implications counselling before they even begin the process. There is a lot to consider and it is a painful and difficult process. And rightly so.

(unless they decide to use private donation)

They can also screen you 'out' at this point. the welfare of the child is very much considered.

And yes, the number of children that are related and don't know it, particularly in areas with high birth rate and a not very transient population is extremely common! (often lower socio economic areas)

Gamete donation is very heavily regulated and donors donate a small number of times and then that's it! Not sure the exact amount. I think its two or three.

right...really going now.

[Viviennemary]

This was an event waiting to happen. It would have been so much easier to have all civil partnership called such and carried out in a civil ceremony. And let churches decide what is marriage and who is eligible. That would have been easier.

[GrimmaTheNome]

FYI HFEA rules. So dies another red herring.

You may think that psychiatrist wise. The facts as shown by actual outcomes show he was merely opinionated. One opinionated 'expert' with views matching one opinionated non-expert don't equate to 'wisdom'.

[Anniegetyourgun]

You think that psychiatrist is wise? If your paraphrasing is accurate, he sounds like a bit of a twit tbh.

Presumably he's totally against step parenting of whatever sex, as then the child would not be living with two opposite sex parents. That's alienated another large section of the population then.

[ChangeRearrange]

These two people come across as being supremely arrogant. I hope it trips them up one day

As someone who has had a child born by donated gametes that is really really offensive and you are also inadvertently wishing very unhappy things for a child. How nasty.

Crikey.

I would never wish infertility on anyone either. I'm guessing infertility isn't something youve ever had to experience no?

Right, really going now. As am furious!!

[Anniegetyourgun]

I'll stop stepping on your lines soon, Grimma, I promise.

[GrimmaTheNome]

It would have been so much easier to have all civil partnership called such and carried out in a civil ceremony. And let churches decide what is marriage and who is eligible. That would have been easier.

that makes the false presumption that marriage is the preserve of religion. It isn't. It would be easier - as discussed upthread - if legal marriage required a civil ceremony and then people could have whatever religious marriage or blessing in addition. It worked for my Sikh friend, I can't see the logical objection. Though I'm sure there would be objections aplenty from the religious groups currently privileged to perform legal marriages.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Annie - you carry right on

[Anniegetyourgun]

[ChangeRearrange]

You think that psychiatrist is wise? If your paraphrasing is accurate, he sounds like a bit of a twit tbh

Ha ha Annie, I thought that too actually.

I had the image of a very dusty man sitting in a wing backed chair and peering over half moon glasses. I imagine he probably thinks his view are very inclusive and progressive.

God, id rather sit here and get cross than do my housework!! What's the matter with me.

[Binkyridesagain]

this isn't a thread about the rights and wrongs of whether the church should hold gay marriages. This thread was purely a platform for the OP to attack anyone who deviates from what they perceive is the 'right' path.

[GrimmaTheNome]

well, it can't have been an accurate quote ' a gay and lesbian man who get together ' unless he was deeply confused!

[GrimmaTheNome]

To be sure, Binky - the OP seems to have a mind Teflon-coated against normal debating tools such as evidence.

[tabulahrasa]

Why would anyone lie about same sex parents not being an issue?

Is everyone who disagrees with you about anything lying? Do you have other forms of paranoia?

[nooka]

The OP appears to believe that gay people are only OK if they behave as if they are straight. This is not an unusual position for bigots to take - hide your differences so I can pretend they don't exist.

[PeriodFeatures]

Mrs DeVere I think because the discussion moved on to Gamete Donation? Eggs/Sperm etc. Something else that OP would be rid of if she rules the world. It's not fair on the child you know....

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello folks

It seems we've been visited by a previously banned poster. We're letting the thread stand for now because it's become a lively discussion, but please bear in mind that homophobic posts are against our Guidelines.