To think cutting people out of your life is just cruel

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

I know I am risking a real flaming here, and I honestly do appreciate that every case is very different and I cannot judge anything without knowing each case. However I see a lot of advice on here, mostly in relationships, where the advice is to 'just walk away' or 'cut them out of your life'. Now, in many cases I can see the point BUT......

I have a MIL. She is enormously hard work. Totally selfish, manipulative, vindictive and cannot even conceive of not getting her own way, a real pain in the ass. She drives me scatty and on occasion her manipulation makes me very angry. She repeatedly gets the hump and has little hissy fits, stopping speaking to DP and I for months on end (once because DP told his grandmother the dog had died ) then decides to make up. If you tackle her she tantrums - literally storming out screaming that she never wants to see you again. I suspect she could benefit from counselling but she won't even countenance it.

She is the mother to 4 grown up kids. 2 of them no longer speak to her and one is emigrating (in part I think to get away). This leaves DP. Oh joy. PIL are also homeless, having sold up to go travelling and when back in the UK they end up staying with us for months at a time, without really asking properly.

Anyway, sorry for length. Despite all this I see the total utter misery and heartbreak not seeing her 2 children causes her and I think they are really nasty for continuing to refuse to see her. At least part of her bad behaviour seems to stem from this misery. last week I could hear her crying her heart out (through the ceiling) and it turned out it was her 'lost' daughter's birthday (didn't talk to MIL, asked DP if he knew what was up). This is someone who ran away at 16 and is now back in touch with many others in the family but won't have anything to do with her parents.
They weren't abusive or anything, DP was living at home as an adult when she left and said at the time it just seemed like the usual teenage angst (ok, it's a bit more complicated but not wanting to out self or anyone else).

Everytime anyone asks PIL if DD is their first grandchild they just look stricken. They have 5 grandchildren but don't even know the names of all of them and have never met any but DD. Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery.

Anyway - AIBU to think that people should sometimes be a bit more forgiving and tolerant? families can be a PITA but to just walk away because it makes life easier is just selfish and cruel.

Go on, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.....

[Thumbwitch]

"Yes they are a nightmare but they don't deserve this misery. "

Err, yes they do. They have brought it upon themselves.

"They weren't abusive or anything..."

Really? The crap you described in the first couple of paragraphs indicates quite strongly an enormous level of potential for emotional abuse.

So - you can choose to put up with it as much as you, your DH and your DC can stand - but don't expect others to do the same, or even criticise them for not choosing to keep this toxic person in their lives.

[Mia4]

ThinkAboutItTomorrow You're thinking about isolated incidents which were the trigger for the cutting out, you aren't thinking that said incidents are probably the breaking point after years and years of toxic shit. IF BIL was that miserable, he'd do something about it. Feeling unhappy and guilty knowing your parent is aging and upset and you're cutting them out is often outweighed by the sheer relief and unburdening that comes along too.

If more then one sibling has cut her off, it says more about her then about them. I get that you get all the flack and see the bad fallout, as well as see MILs grief but you didn't see those children's years of grief and likely neither did your DP-you may think differently if you did.

You want to help MIL? Stop enabling her to continue acting as she does. Challenge her and call her out on it, not try to pretend it isn't happening or put it down to just being 'her'. Maybe if you all stop she might take a look at her behviour but while one of her kids is condoning it and effectively agreeing his siblings were 'PITA' then she can live in her self-delusion.

Are you sure your DP isn't favourite? She may have babied the others and he may have been more independent but that doesn't mean he's not the favourite.

[mrsdinklage]

The cruelty was your MIL's behaviour. I'm sure your DP was the golden child, and FIL and your DP and now you are her enablers.
You really do not get it.
How much shit abuse would you let your dd tolerate ?
Teenage angst FFS
Have you actually spoken to your SIL - I guess not.
Its very hard to cut someone out of your life - but cruel - no cruel is when toxic people are forced on innocent children.
I hope you see things clearly before your dd is damaged by her toxic nature.

[sparechange]

Re your BIL, maybe the wedding was the straw that broke the camels back? When you have years and years and years of toxic behaviour, you may eventually have an epiphany 'you know what, she isn't going to change, I'm not putting up with this crap anymore' moment. Perhaps for your BIL, it was the wedding.

I have cut my mother out, and slowly my siblings are doing the same. For one brother, it was about her visiting our grandfather (her father) in hospital. It might seem really trivial, but it was just a realisation for him that she will never change, and she has been given every chance under the sun to show she can be a decent human being.

The fact that your MIL can moderate her behavior with you I think shows that she knows she is wrong in the way she treats her other children (or else she would behave like that with you as well) AND is capable of behaving in a civil manner when she puts her mind to it.
The fact that she refuses to afford her children that basic courtesy seems to me to show that she thinks of them as lesser humans who aren't worthy of being treated properly. Your other comments that she can't accept they are grown up and independents confirms that she sees her children as her property that she can treat however she wants.

In that situation, I'd be running like the wind in the opposite direction from her

[mrsdinklage]

x posted with Mia - but are posts are very similar.

[umpti67]

I think YABU. Would agree with one of the poster's above, you've seen the trigger point but not the years of rubbish that went on beforehand. You can tolerate her as a well adjusted adult with a happy childhood (presumably). But if you haven't had those things, you sometimes don't have the mental capacity to deal with it any longer. And the anger you feel as an adult is hard to just get over. I can only speak from my own experience but the treatment I received as a child has shaped my own relationships, my self esteem, my career, my parenting as an adult. It's a constant struggle just to keep sane. I sometimes just don't feel i have the energy to keep fighting for my basic rights - i.e. to be treated with respect and not continually be emotionally abused. I haven't cut my dm off, but I suspect a sibling is in the process of doing so. I don't blame them but it has the effect of putting more pressure on the remaining siblings in contact.

[Nanny0gg]

She is not selfish or cruel. She loves her kids. She just doesn't seem to want them to grow up and be adults away from her. All the problems were in her not letting go. Her daughter won't even let her have an address to send letters to - although she has sent letters of apology, passed on through other relatives. She has repeatedly apologised to DBIL and DSIL. But they just won't accept it. It's very much just because it's easier without her in their lives. DFIL once said 'I know she was difficult but it's been 8 years. you do longer for murder'. I kind of see what he means.

But she doesn't seem to have learnt from all this or changed her behaviour. Are you happy for your DC to see all this as they grow up?
She knows what she's done in the past. What's she doing to change the future?

[Binkyridesagain]

I very rarely see my father, he lives abroad. 2 years ago he had a stroke which nearly killed him. I was nagged and nagged by family to go and visit him, I used every excuse in the book to attempt to put a stop to the nagging. The truth of why I didn't go was because I didn't want to, I didn't/don't care enough for him, to visit. My family believe me to be heartless, a crap daughter, as he's my father I should forgive him for whatever it is he's done.

They see a snap shot of our relationship, they see a daughter that is uncaring and a father that wants to make peace. What they don't see is the torture and pain he inflicted over many years. They don't know why I have had to shut him off in order to protect myself and more importantly protect my children.

You OP have seen a snap shot of your ILs life, you have no idea, other than what your ILs have chosen to tell you, about the life before you arrived. Deciding to cut ties with members of your family is difficult but is very rarely done on the back of a single incident, it has generally taken years of abuse to get to the point were you decide enough is enough. The straw that breaks the camels back, to outsiders, can look to be a minor insignificant problem but when its added to years of crap, it is important, it does matter and it does count.

How many chances does someone get? You state that MIL deserves a second chance, how do you know that she already hasn't had a second, third, forth chance? how many times do you think someone should be emotionally beaten before you accept that disowning someone is justified?

[roseel]

I cut off my family, but I'd endured years (during my childhood) of physical abuse, emotional abuse and downright neglect. I still stayed in touch until adulthood, but made the break when they started to try the old emotional abuse at a time when I was vulnerable.

I'd say it wouldn't have been something they have done lightly. I felt guilty for a long time, and know others have felt similarly. It is not easy to do. It has been years for me now, and I do feel better as time goes on, I will not go back, ever.

[catsmother]

I agree with the others re: straws, camels and backs.

For me, the single specific incident which made me decide to finally cut contact (it had been in the pipeline for a while, but you keep giving them "one more chance" etc) would be, in isolation, considered by most people to be relatively trivial. For me however, it was very much "FFS, not yet another dose of sh*t - why on earth am I putting up with this again and again" .... I really had been pushed too far. Metaphorically, imagine you're standing near a cliff edge and being pushed inch by inch towards the edge on a fairly regular basis - well, eventually, if you keep being pushed, you're going to go over aren't you ?

[LaRegina]

OP YABU.

You don't seem to realise that people don't usually have much choice about cutting toxic relatives out of their lives - it's not (usually) done on a whim.

Quite often people are at the end of their tether and the only choice is to become more and more miserable and stressed because of the way somebody is treating them, or to cut ties.

[IfIonlyhadsomesleep]

Nobody cuts anyone out without huge angst. I used to think my sister was unreasonable for not talking to my mother. Now I realise that her experience then and now could be different and I respect her reasons. Yabu.

[CinnamonAddict]

OP you don't know what you are talking about.

There are things done to children that don't come under "Forgive and forget" it just does not apply here. It's more like damage limitation.

I don't know if the damage your PIL did was of this dimension, but please don't assume all cutting out is done for some selfish little reason.

[Back2Two]

YABU
It's sometimes a case of choosing survival over emotional destruction.

Not an easy choice to make and not necessarily leaving you with at total peace for ever more, but sometimes it's the only way to give you the strength to focus on being a good parent for example.

[ImTooHecsyForYourParty]

You aboutdon't know what you are talking about, sorry but you don't.
People don't have the right to be in your life no matter who they are. If someone shits all over you you have the right to say no, I'm not taking that.
When I was 16 I tried to kill myself. This came after several years of serious mental health problems.
My fathers parents came to the mental health unit I was under section in, delusional and suicidal and they told me that my parents didn't love me and didn't care about me and were the cause of all my problems and only they were there for me, not my parents. They told me they gave me gifts which my parents had intercepted. I was so distressed by this that I tried to escape the mhu and ended up under constant supervision.
When I was released, they phoned my parents and demanded I go to stay with them. I didn't want to. My dads mother then yelled that they wanted nothing more to do with me via my dads dad who was on the phone to me at the time.
"Don't go getting clucky X" she yelled "we want nothing more to do with her"

Fair enough.

I gave them what they wanted and the rest of the 'family' sided with them because they thought as you do. That someone can shit all over you and matters soooooooo much more than you that you have to bend over and take it up the arse cos they're 'family' and they can be utter bastards and you have to take it.
Well no. You don't. Fuck. That.
Someone who can treat you so badly does not deserve to be in your life. Why the holy hell should you let someone treat you so badly and take it in order to protect their feelings when they demonstrate day in day out by their contemptuous treatment of you that they don't give a crap about yours?
Be a martyr to the shits in your life if you want but don't try to tell other people that they have to be martyrs to the shits in theirs.

[JacqueslePeacock]

You're right - it IS cruel and distressing to a mother to be cut out. But it would be even more cruel and distressing to me to have to stay in touch. Someone is going to be horribly hurt, but the difference is that it doesn't have to be me anymore.

[MumnGran]

Back2Two sums it up perfectly It's sometimes a case of choosing survival over emotional destruction

I would go further and say it is "often" the case.

Honestly OP - can you not see that people here appreciate what you are trying to say, but bring a world of experience to the thread when we are all saying the same thing .... the fact is, that while we could accept that one child going NC could just possibly be a child/parent clash, rather than toxic parenting ...THREE siblings doing it leaves not a shadow of room for doubt.

And I reiterate ...you yourself have said that you put up with it providing she doesn't start the behaviours with your children because that is your 'red line' (your words). You are rightly protecting your offspring from behaviour you consider they would be very hurt by. no one drew a red line to protect your siblings-in-law No-one. That means they were hurt (in a way you would not allow for your own children) day in, day out, year in, year out, with no adult safe zone to make it better for them.

I started my answers to you by saying that you seem a kind caring person, but actually now think you are determinedly blind to the damage that is caused to the psyche by the actions of mothers like your MIL.....and to the absolute right of the children who live through that childhood to finally draw the red line for themselves

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

Just for the record - I don't try to tell the people in question that they should kiss and make up - I think it but keep it to myself. It kind of is my business because it impacts my life quite a lot - but it's not ENOUGH of my business to try to dictate. And knowing the personalities involved I don't think anything I say would make a blind bit of difference.

I just see it from the angle of the person who has lost / pushed away / destroyed their family and think it is quite harsh.

[yamsareyammy]

op. I suspect you wont post on here again.
But you will probably read it all eventually.

The one thing I have left to say is, you sound like a relative of mine.
If someones bends her ear or lives with her for a while, she starts going round to their point of view. Then, when she lives with someone else for a couple of months, and they bend her ear, she will start going towards their point of view.

You originally came acorss as being quite emotionally mature. But I do think, and empathetic. But I think you may be missing the bit I just talked about.

tbh, the best thing you could do is live with one of the other siblings for 2 months. I think it would open your eyes hugely.

[JessicaBeatriceFletcher]

You understanding it a bit more now, OP?

[yamsareyammy]

x post! And I think you have somewhat confirmed what I have just written.
Spend a lot of time with one of the siblings, go on holiday with them, or whatever.

[Back2Two]

I agree goodtouch

[JessicaBeatriceFletcher]

x post too!

Sorry, OP, despite all this woman has done, which must be significant to have the outcome it had/has, and your own experience of her behaviour you STILL think the others are HARSH?????

I get the impression you would apologise until the cows come home until this woman turns her attention on your and your family. I suspect she manages to keep that in check to some extent because she knows full well you are last chance saloon and if she pisses your DH off to the extent she has everyone else, she's gonna be in a tiny bedsit somewhere.

[Binkyridesagain]

HARSH? Try thinking about it from the childs perspective.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

Oh Yams believe me, there are days and indeed weeks I COMPLETELY understand BIL and SIL points of view . It's just this last couple of weeks I feel like MIL is improving a bit and maybe deserves a bit of time off for good behaviour.

Next week I will be on here ranting about my bloody impossible MIL and seriously considering walking away (after 14 years with DP we have had our fair share of times considering this option!).