When it comes to drinking

[ThePerfectFather]

I look after the kids while my wife works, and by the end of the day I need a fucking drink.

I don't know if that counts as alcohol abuse or alcoholism, but my wife certainly seems to think so. She thinks I drink too much and says that since I drink every day, I "can't" go a day without drinking. The way I see it is that during the week I indeed "can't" go a day without drinking because I look after the kids and after 12 hours with them I want to drink to relax and unwind. Yes I am blaming the children for my rampant booze addiction that is tearing my life apart (hint, it's not).

On average I tend to drink around 4 or 5 cans of beer or cider between 5pm and midnight during the week. I get a nice little buzz, but definitely in no way am I drunk. I'm 37 and 6ft and weight 13 stone so my capacity for booze is...you know...adult. And that's 5 cans over 7 hours. I tend to stop drinking about an hour or an hour and a half before I go to bed at midnight to avoid needing to get up for a piss.

If I drank that amount in the space of a couple of hours as I might on a night out, then yes I would be well on the way. This is more like maintaining that slightly fuzzy level you get after one, maybe two, drinks.

The recommended daily maximum is 4 units a day, and so I probably drink more like 10 units. At the weekend I might drink more and actually get drunk. Some days I will drink more, some days I will drink less. I honestly assumed that since the booze aisles in supermarkets and off licences are so well stocked that a lot of people drink this way.

I don't get drunk often. I don't wake up every day with a throbbing head barely able to function. I don't drink and drive - EVER - I never even have a half if I am driving. If I need to get up early, I won't drink more than a couple. I rarely get stumbling-around drunk and reserve that for nights out with my mates and even then very, very rarely.

I also realise that drinking is bad for you. I know I am drinking well over the recommended daily limit, but that limit is pretty bloody low. Also, what is "too much" for a person? The idea that all men and women are the same when it comes to how much they can and should drink doesn't ring true to me at all. It's like saying there is a fixed number of calories you should consume - but that's dependent on lifestyle and body mass.

I'm not overweight, I have no health problems at all, in no way do I consider myself to be suffering mentally or physically because of the amount I drink. My wife is worried but she worries about pretty much everything 24/7, but I want to find out what other people think. Am I drinking too much? Am I an alcoholic?

[pianodoodle]

My husband also maintained all sorts of justification like he "earned" it etc...

He would have also felt horrified at the thought of being drunk in charge of children and insisting he was being responsible.

So he "cut down" and placated me in various ways without actually acknowledging the problem or taking it seriously.

He'd "never" put DD at risk I was worrying over nothing. About 6 months later he was attempting to bath her while so drunk he didn't know where he was.

The truth is, it will get worse if you don't get help. You will put alcohol ahead of your family's needs at some stage even if you don't feel you are already doing so. No amount of seeing people upset or feeling guilty and remorseful will be enough in itself to make you stop because it doesn't seem to work that way.

You should talk to a professional. Some people only change when they lose everything and even then sometimes that still doesn't solve the problem they do not get proper help.

Your size/being stressed etc... Are all just ways to deny the problem and alcoholics no matter how nice a person in general, soon get very adept at being devious and finding any reason to justify why what they do is acceptable.

[flipchart]

What's so bad about looking after your kids you need a drink?

Can't you change something around the children to make it a more ppleasent expierence?

DH did more than his fair share of looking garter the kids in the evenings when they were small as i worked a lot of evenings but only drank when he went on a night out.

[SignoraStronza]

Yes, you are drinking too much. And it probably costs a bloody fortune too. My DH can't go an evening without a beer, a g&t or something and it drives me crackers because if you add it all up it comes to at least the price of a decent family holiday that we won't be able to go on this year.

[HappyDoll]

Your wife thinks you abuse alcohol.

Your wife worries about everything 24/7.

You're sick of being a SAHD.

You need to respect her and her concerns and do what's best for your family. Carrying on regardless with your 'I'm alright Jack' attitude is not the best thing for your family.

Sounds like she is carrying a lot of worry around which is amplified by the fact that she can't be home with the kids and you make it obvious you don't want to be. Is that the parents you both wanted to be?

[OatcakeCravings]

It's too much, you knew that before you posted. However I know plenty of people who drink that much every week, I wouldn't see it as abnormal. Some weeks I would easily put away that much but I generally try to make sure I have 2 or 3 alcohol free days and if I have a big weekend I won't drink at all during that week.

If I was you my worry would be that if this level of drinking continues you will slowly increase how much you drink to get that fuzzy feeling that you need to unwind. I don't think that you are an alcoholic in any way but I do think the way you use alcohol could lead you down that path in a few years.

[dreamingbohemian]

I would definitely try to address the Vitamin D thing as well then, and anything else physical that may give you more energy.

My DH and I switch being SAHP, and twice now he has had serious Vitamin D deficiency, gotten prescription supplements, and it made such a difference in his ability to cope with a full day of parenting.

Do you want to talk a bit about what your days are like? Maybe there are things that would make them a bit easier?

Do you ever get time for yourself?

It helps to look at the drinking in context, because if you can reduce the need for it, it makes such a difference.

[OTheHugeManatee]

It sounds like you're unhappy, OP. I agree with the others who say 4-5 beers or ciders every night is way too much, but I think you're right that it's not the root of the problem. Lots of people find it really tough them being SAHPs full-time. There's no shame in that, any more than there is in absolutely loving it.

Is there anything you could do to vary your days a bit, or find other ways to let off steam? For example could you fit some exercise in, maybe go to the gym/swim/run after your DW gets home? DH used to drink quite a lot, and since he's started cycling to the station in the mornings (6 miles each way) has been much more relaxed and less in need of a glass of wine to unwind and I found much the same since I quit smoking and started running seriously.

Equally do you ever get out in the evenings? Do you have a hobby? There are often threads on MN by SAHPs who are struggling to carve out time for themselves amid the nonstop work of managing a household. IMO you are drinking too much but don't sound like a dyed-in-the-wool pisshead; I reckon once you find a few more booze-free ways of unwinding and taking time for yourself you'll be fine.

[purplemurple1]

I use to be like you having bottle of wine, or 4-5 beers a night to 'relax' still worked full time, had a relationship, studyed, never got really drunk, etc so thought it was all OK. I also did the I'll stop for 2 weeks that proves I don't have a problem - it doesn't - it just proves you can stop for a short defined time period. Also thought lots of people drink to much so it's OK, but that doesn't mean its good for you or your marrige.

If you're using it to 'deal' with, hide emotions (stress) or other problems it is a problem. You need to find a better way of coping, could you go for a walk/run, join a running club, start a hobby to get you out the house occasionally once the kids are settled?

Personally I think you can bring it under control without stopping altogether but you have to change when and WHY you drink. I started with the none on a Sun - Wed, and never if I'm upset (as that was my normal trigger), and went from there. I do still drink (not now though, as I'm preg), a nice half a bottle of red at the weekend because it tastes nice and goes with the dinner I'm eating, 1 beer after a days gardening, very occasional night out, that sort of thing. But NEVER because I'm upset, or need it to relax.

Sorry if its not what you wanted to hear.

[Drunkendiva1]

Yes it's too much, I love a drink or 5 but only on the weekend, used to be every night but now do Mon-Thurs as alcohol free nights-& yes I have kids, 2 small ones.

[Dahlen]

I don't know if you're an alcoholic but you are definitely drinking too much. Even given your sex and weight, that amount daily is going to have serious repercussions for your health. Maybe not now, but probably sooner than you think.

I think a lot of people drink out of habit rather than addiction. But a long-term habit soon becomes a dependency without the drinker even being aware of it.

Try to find something more productive or healthy to unwind. I substituted running for alcohol. I am fitter, healthier and financially better off as a result, with the added bonus that exercise really boosts your mental healthy whereas alcohol does the opposite.

If you really feel the need to unwind after looking after the DC (and believe me I totally get that ), maybe the SAHP role is not for you and you'd be happier working part or full time and using the extra money to pay for childcare.

[MrsHuxtable]

Yes, you sound like an alcoholic and eve if you weren't, you are very irresponsible because you won't see your children grow up with a lifestyle like that.

[specialsubject]

you don't get incapable because you have a tolerance to all this.

healthy people don't need loads of firewater to unwind. They enjoy fresh air, exercise, company of others, hobbies etc.

you have a problem - it is an illness, not your fault, but it IS your fault if you refuse to accept it. Please recognise it and get help.

[Sallystyle]

I love how a couple of the posts that tell the OP to 'grow up'

It is quite obvious that he needs support and telling somebody to grow up isn't helpful is it?

OP you have got some great advice here from the wise MN'ers and I really hope you can put some of the ideas into place and lower your alcohol consumption.

Good luck to you :)

[Guerrillacrochet]

Hi perfect
Some good advice here. You know it's too much and if you are counting down to the first drink of the day then I think something in your daily routine needs to change so it isn't so stressful. Cutting back is a good start. Before we had kids DH and I shared a bottle of wine a night - it gradually built up to that. Now we have maybe two bottles a week and I feel much better for it.
If you're drinking too much your sleep is likely to be disturbed, so you're probably tired too, which isn't great when you're looking after small children.
I really agree you should be looking at ways to make the days themselves less stressful. Do you have a routine or just wing it? My husband is a SAHD and he was winging it for a while and it got him down- by having more structure it can make it more straightforward. Getting outside helps too- both to burn off DCs energy and have a bit of space for you.
Do you have any activities outside the home just for you? Did you do any sports or have any hobbies before the DC? Could you start something like that? Again, it has helped my DH get a bit of his sense of self back (plus I get a bit of 1:1 time with the kids)
I think if you recognise it is too much and need to cut down then that is a really good step. The fact you're asking is really positive.
Good luck and keep posting

[RobotBananas]

PerfectFather I used to drink like this. For about 2 years. The day to day slog with children was just too much for me and by the end of the day I was desperate for a drink.

you know what though - once I stopped drinking (other than occasional drinks out at the weekend) I didn't feel that each day. You say you're not hungover or affected by the alcohol the following day, but you will be. Even if you're not hungover, you will not be functioning as well as if you had not been drinking.

Life is so much easier now. Days with the kids are loads more fun and I no longer feel the need to drink 4-6 beers at the end of the day. It's only been an improvement.

If you read this and then think to yourself 'oh, but it's fine, I don't feel like that, I'll just carry on for a bit longer.. I don't need to give up' then you DO have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and you need to stop for a while.

[expatinscotland]

That is too much.

[Bowlersarm]

It is perfectly possible to cut back and not have the need to stop altogether, if you have realised there is a problem.

When my children were small I got into the habit of having a glass of wine at 6 o'clock every night feeling I had 'earnt' it. Then the amount can build up until you are drinking way more than is recommended or sensible.

DH was worried that my drinking was getting out of hand, and once he had voiced his concerns I did cut back considerably, and now don't drink by myself at all.

It does take a bit of an effort, and a need to rethink lifestyle, triggers etc.

It does sound like you drink too much, and your wife is clearly worried, so I think you should consider her opinion and show some moderation. Although not necessarily stop drinking totally.

Good luck with it all.

[SouthBySouthWest]

You are doing exactly what I have been doing for the last three years, ever since my DS1 was born. I suffered from crippling anxiety, probably PND too, and it was my way of coping after spending a full day looking after him. It relaxed me, made me feel like if I could get through the day until 5pm (my okay time to start!) I could reward myself with a bottle glass or two of wine.

I stopped when I was pregnant with DS2, but am back to the same pattern. I recognise it for what it is - my way of coping with the stress of looking after two small children, but it is a crap way of coping. It's not coping, it's avoiding coping.

A month ago my father, who spent most of his life as an alcohol abuser (which he used to hide from the things he didn't want to cope with), died from complications relating to his alcohol abuse. He lost everthing over the years because of it - his wife, his business, his home. At the end, he died alone , in debt. This is the end of the slippery slope you and I are on. You may never get to this point, but it is a sobering thought that you could.

This is why I have decided I need to do something about my drinking. I kept justifying that, although I drank every day, I didn't need it during the day, and I kept it within limits. So, I was not like my father (drunk all day every day till the alcohol ran out). I was lying to myself. You are doing the same.

I really don't like a lot of the advice that gets bandied about relating to alcohol and how to cut down. It all seems to focus on controlling your consumption with an iron will. Only drink on certain days of the week. Only drink a certain amount. Always drink a soft drink between alcoholic drinks. Have periods of abstinence. To me, all this does is focus your mind on how much you are not drinking, and we all know what happens when you feel deprived. You crave the thing even more.

I would recommend picking up a copy of one of these two books - Allen Carr's 'Easy Way to Control Alcohol' or Jason Vale's 'Kick the drink...Easily'. They are both based on the same premise, and are basically the same book (Vale worked with Carr, hence the similarity). It's all about seeing alcohol for what it is - a powerful drug with good marketing. It's the only socially acceptable drug that we are encouraged to use and have to justify not using (whilst also having to prove to everyone that we use it responsibly - which is a subjective judgement anyway, so pretty meaningless).

It explains (in a way that seems logical to me) that there really isn't any such thing as a non-alcoholic drinker and an alcoholic drinker. Anyone who drinks alcohol has fallen into the same trap, just to varying degrees. Think about it, no one on this thread can tell you if you are an alcoholic or not. According to AA, you would have to decide that for yourself. How bloody wishy washy and subjective is that. The fact is, like me, you drink to cope with stress, and un-wind at the end of the day. Your wife doesn't like it, and perhaps you wouldn't like it if you saw yourself with her eyes.

I hope this doesn't sound judgemental. I am currently trying to stop the cycle of drinking that I found myself in. I'm not fully there yet, but feel so much better when I don't drink. And, this is the key, so much better able to cope with two small children. I have more patience, I can connect with them more, and be more fun.

I also don't want them associating being a grown up with drinking, and my oldest was starting to do this ('When I'm a daddy, I can drink beer'). There have been too many people in my family lost young to alcohol misuse. I need to break this cycle. Maybe you do too?

[dreamingbohemian]

South, that's a really powerful post, good luck with all your efforts.

I can see why you don't like some of the advice on here. All I can say is this is what worked for me, gradually cutting down and limiting myself, and any approach predicated on full-blown avoidance just did not work for me mentally.

I think the most important thing is to recognise that there is a problem, and then realise that there are many different avenues to address it. You may have to try a few of them before you find one that works for you. So I think it's good the OP is getting a range of responses.

I didn't know Alan Carr has a drinking book, I've heard his smoking book is insanely effective.

[KatyTheCleaningLady]

It's not how much you drink. It's about what alcohol means to you.

And, I would say the definition of a drinking problem is if your drinking causes problems. You are posting here because it's causing problems in your marriage.

[Oldraver]

You are drinking too much.

You are relying on drink.

You are making excuses for your excessive drinking

Therefore you DO have an alcohol problem

[SouthBySouthWest]

Thanks, Dreaming, I had hoped that the post didn't come across as being too harsh. For a lot of people, myself included, controlling their drinking is a real struggle, even if, on the face of it, they seem fine (the so called 'functioning alcoholic').

One of the reasons I react so strongly to the idea that there is some magical point between being an alcoholic and not being an alcoholic is that for all his life, my dad felt that being able to drink alcohol was the 'normal' thing to do, and thus hated being labelled as an alcoholic who could never drink again lest it killed him. On one occasion, a doctor told him he didn't think he was an alcoholic, and despite many, many more doctors telling him he was, he latched onto this and started drinking again. A few years later he was dead. He was never able to control his drinking enough that it didn't harm him and those around him.

But your point is also a valid one. What works for one person who wants to cut down or stop, might not work for another. I just wanted to put forward a different viewpoint - that alcohol inherently harms people to varying degrees. There is no need to wait until you can label yourself as an 'alcoholic' before addressing this.

I have never read Allen Carr's smoking book (never smoked), but I think that his drinking book follows the same premise. It may work for someone who needs to reassess their view of alcohol.

[EldritchCleavage]

I do think you drink too much and are now an habitual over-drinker (to put it at its best).

My DH is SAHD. It is hard, not least because there are so few SAHD, and it is even more isolated for him than for most SAHM. Full-time childcare can be a real grind. We've recently had some good friends move away, so he has lost the nice friendship group he and the kids had.

He got into a drink every night habit, though in much smaller amounts than you. He's just stopped, of his own accord. Alcohol is now a Fri and Sat treat only.

He looks better, feels better, sleeps better. We are getting on better, looking after the children is easier, and his mood is better. Everything is better, and that's just after giving up a fairly mundane, modest intake.

I think along with minimising the drinking you are failing to see how much this intake is affecting you and making everything harder for your family. Instead of 'I drink, but I'm coping, it helps me cope' trying thinking about how much you might actually 'thrive' if you stopped doing it.

[RobotBananas]

" It amazes me every time how much more positive, alert and how much less lethargic I feel when I stop drinking again"

^ This x a million.