To feel annoyed English will never become the main language in DP's life...

[chicoingles]

Hi there,

My DP is Spanish and would say she was fluent in English (very good English accent and only noticeable she is foreign when she pronounces certain words, but you couldn't guess she was Spanish at all) but when she gets angry/is tired tends to switch to Spanish. We have been together for 7 years now and it has always been like this, although we did spend the first 4 years of our relationship mainly speaking in Spanish, whereas now we mainly speak English. I do have have a degree in Spanish but feel our relationship works better in English. AIBU thinking English will never become totally natural for her? Would be very interested in hearing the opinions of any foreign ladies who have an English DP.

I agree with cory. I thought that idea had been thrown out as dated. Certainly when I've spoken to linguists about the idea of a 'cut-off' age, they've said this used to be thought true and has now been replaced by a much more general set of ideas.

My uncle's wife didn't speak English until she was in her late teens, and she has now more or less forgotten her first language. Her English effectively is her first language. I actually think that is terribly sad.

Btw, it's worth saying - in various European countries the idea that you couldn't/wouldn't learn a new language as an adult would be seen as a bit odd and rude. My Dutch friends find it really bizarre, particularly.

My Chinese SIL actually speaks pretty good Swedish. But then she is pretty amazing all round. She arrived in the country as an adult, learnt the language, did a whole university degree from scratch in her new language all the way up to passing her (apparently excellent) PhD at the same time as giving birth to and bringing up two children- all in just over 10 years. During which time she also learnt to cook (to very high standards), to swim...and I've probably forgotten something.

Grrrr.

I speak several languages but learnt my "best" one as an adult. It's completely unrelated to my mother tongue and is generally regarded as one of the "hardest" languages to learn as a foreigner. For some reason, it just clicked with me and I learnt it very easily. I am frequently mistaken on the phone for a native speaker, sometimes with amusing consequences.

My DH's language is supposedly much easier to learn, but while I have a good working knowledge of its grammar and vocabulary, I will always sound like a foreigner when I speak it!

YABU. Why on earth would you want to control your partner's choice of language? How very odd.

My DH is Russian, I am American. We have a fully bilingual household. I learned Russian as an adult (starting at age 18) and I now teach Russian lang and lit at a university. DH learned English as an adult as well and he is highly proficient. Privately, I prefer it when he speaks Russian, as I think his personality changes slightly when expressing himself in English. But I wouldn't dream of attempting to control his choice of language.

The languages we speak are about so much more than words and grammatical function. Language is intertwined with emotions, culture, memory, identity. I would find it very difficult to have a relationship with somebody who didn't speak my native language. I would run a mile from someone like the OP who actually does speak his partner's language but wants to deny her the opportunity to communicate as she sees fit.

I really don't think there is a great deal of point in trying to convince OP that he is BU because he is being soooooo unreasonable that if he can't see it there's not much hope.

It's the word 'annoyed' that really pisses me off. Not upset or sad but annoyed.

All I can say is, if she posted on here saying she was annoyed that Spanish would never be your main language- how would you feel?

I never said that you couldn't learn a language as an adult - in fact I said the opposite. However, regarding the research, I understand the sentiment Malenky, but how can modern scientific research findings/theories be "rude" (the 80s and 90s weren't the dark ages)? They are just findings based on research.. Obviously that changes all the time, but, again.. rude? No.

I, and everyone I know (even the Dutch, funnily enough!), think of it in the same way as, for example, a white person I can't ever become truly black, however much they try (clunky example, but you get the point). Like I said, fair enough, if there is now new research to show that the cut-off point is not universal, but it doesn't mean that there is clear consensus on the subject of there not being one..

I get told that I speak like a native quite often, and people are amazed to find I'm not from Britain, but as soon as I get home and relax I can let it "all hang out" a bit more, so I do have a tiny bit of an accent. Certainly if I'm furious

I would say that one part of speaking a language is in-depth knowledge of the culture, which a foreigner might lack. I certainly don't get all the references DH trots out. We had completely different telly/music/popular culture in general in my country. Historical references are hard to catch-up on. I'm trying, but still don't "get" things like what's good/bad about the Carry On films. I "get it, but at the same time I don't IYSWIM. I'm now falling off the wagon when it comes to the latest Finnish cultural references (have been here for nearly 10 years), so might fall into the gap in-between languages.

Isn't Spanish the next language most likely to taken over planes as the standard language... Or is that French?

Oh, no, sorry, that was a separate point, hence the separate post!

It wasn't intended to be addressing your point at all. And of course, scientific theories couldn't be 'rude'.

I was thinking simply about the OP, and what he's saying. And I was trying to explain that I think our general response on here, that he's expecting too much of his DP, is not unusual. Other countries might even go further and think it was really strange he didn't feel able to get more comfortable in Spanish as an adult.

OK. Sorry Malenky! And I do agree that the OP is a bit rude an possibly a bit unhinged

Not to worry - I wasn't very clear! And I realize it came across as if I were knocking what your DH says, which I'm not at all.

I am a foreign lady with an English DP and I am completely failing to see what your problem exactly is chicoingles. Rather than embracing the diversity that the relationship you're in brings to your life, you seem to resent it.

There are times when we do talk in Spanish (when I don't want anyone else to understand what I'm talking about)

That's just rude. My DC are completely bilingual and I've always made it very clear that you do not exclude people from conversation by speaking a language they don't understand. I only ever talk to them in my native tongue, unless we are with other people who don't speak it. If I want to say something that I don't want anyone else to understand, then I wait until I have a private moment.

I think you need to develop a healthier attitude towards languages before you have children.

For one thing, I think it is going to be very, very difficult to bring the children up bilingual if their father has such a negative attitude towards their mother's language. OPOL demands a huge commitment by the parent of the minority language: how do you expect your dp to keep that up if she is not allowed to use her language until they are born?

well, now I am back in your time zone I see the thread has grown and it is still unanimous in deciding that YABU!

Just want to add to all the other examples given above that I too have been in 2 long term bilingual relationships, where, and in both cases, both languages were spoken. I also have several bi-lingual couple friends, and in my 11 years in this country have been friends with a great great many more, ALL of which use/d both languages. In fact I have NEVER heard of, and refuse to believe, that there are some bi-lingual couples, who both understand each others languages, where only one language is spoken. Your idea that this seems to go on all the time, is therefore quite wrong. If you really do know a couple like this, I would suggest that their relationship probably wont last very long.

YAB a twat.

HTH.

OP - you are not the yoni bloke by any chance?

I think that this is all a wind up.

My DH is Danish, brought up bilingual (in Denmark) as his mother is English. He has now lived in the UK for over half his life. He speaks perfect English, no accent (unlike his brother, who had the same upbringing but lives in Denmark).

We talk to each other in English, because I don't understand much Danish - I wish I did, but finding somewhere to learn it has proven really difficult. I would never seek to prevent him speaking Danish - why would I? It is part of who he is. Now we have DS, DH speaks to him in Danish, so hopefully DS will grow up bilingual.

Different languages have different words/ concepts, so (according to DH) some ideas are easier to express in one language than the other - my PIL certainly used this to great effect, they would switch between languages, often mid-sentence, if they could express themselves more clearly in the other language.

Being bilingual is an amazing skill, I cannot understand why you would seek to limit your DP by preventing her speaking her mother tongue. However, you may find that the longer you live in the UK, the more your DP's English improves - DH says he certainly didn't speak it so well, or without an accent when he moved here, but that is some 20ish years ago.

Yabu

TheDoctrineOfAllan - I don't know how long they've been together but I'd say about 6 years or so. As far as I know from what she's told me he only knows a few swear words in Polish. When I said a few things I know in Polish, she said I know more Polish than him. So she will be using English literally all the time apart from when she goes back to see her family in Poland which is rarely according to what she's told me.

Thanks for your answer.

Can you also answer my question about why how you want her to communicate is more important than how she wants to communicate?

I would rather she spoke to me in whatever language she felt more comfortable with, which will more than likely be Spanish as this is her native language.

I would rather she spoke to me in whatever language she felt more comfortable with, which will more than likely be Spanish as this is her native language.

So what is the point of this thread, then?

I think the OP might be sad, because his DP won't ever share the same native language and (historical) cultural references, so there will always be a barrier there (however tiny). Is that right, OP?

If that's the case, OP, then I sort of understand you, but at the same time, I feel that the good things about an intercultural relationship outweigh the negatives (or at least neutralise them).

But surely it's pretty obvious when you marry a "foreigner" that you won't share the same language or cultural references. Bit late to start thinking about it now...