I think UKIP are the middle and upper class division of the BNP.... suggesting compulsory abortion for unborn babies with Down Syndrome

[JakeBullet]

Or rather yet another of their candidates has made a stupid comment. They really are not all that good are they?

Here

Yet another reason not to vote for them.

[Toadinthehole]

Regarding this idea that mainstream politicians are "out of touch":

The real problem is that political parties are no longer mass movements:

Conservative: 1951: 2.9 million members 2010: 180,000
Labour: 1975: 700,000 (excluding affiliate members), 2010: 200,000
Liberals: 1975: 200,000, now 45,000.

Only a generation ago, the average member of a political party was just an average person: not a political anorak, not a powermonger, a millionaire or a career politician. Modern politicians find it harder to stay 'in touch' because normal people no longer choose to involve themselves in mainstream politics. That is not the fault of politicians.

The only party worth the name (ie, capable of government) to emerge since 1945 is the SNP.

The Lib Dems' party membership is now less than the average attendance at a major football ground on a Saturday, despite their membership fees probably being a bit less than the gate price for a single match.

Unfortunately, it is now normal for people dissatisfied with the government to to moan a bit, perhaps not vote, or perhaps vote for a fringe party. It has become abnormal to do the more obvious thing, namely, pay the modest subscription, join one of the major parties and, time permitting, involve onesself in organisation, policy debates or stand for election at local or national level. Joining a political party has become seen as something akin to joining a cult. Because of this, and the decline in membership, parties can no longer fund themselves through fees, they raise money in all sorts of nefarious ways, just to keep the fires burning.

If you don't like what the government is doing, join a proper political party. Don't vote for fringe loonies.

[navada]

A pretty large Eastern European population, with a lot of other nationalities mixed in

Eh, maybe that's why UKIP aren't too popular in your Town

It's the areas that don't want to be like your Town where UKIP will thrive.

[NishiNoUsagi]

Well, obviously they're not going to vote for UKIP, unless they're really radical navada

Could go either way couldn't it, towns that don't want to be like ours may vote more, or towns that are already like ours could vote more as they can (wrongly of course) see more of a negative impact of immigration. (Even though there isn't actually a negative impact in our town, unless you're a daily fail believer of course.)

Having said that, the leaflet UKIP put through my door was so riddled with bad English ("imigrants" "they're" for "their", weird apostrophes) that maybe no-one round here is voting for them because we're all snobs and grammar nazis

[gordyslovesheep]

Bloody well said Mrs DV x I agree

[navada]

Haha - to be honest I don't take much notice of politics anymore. I vote in all the main elections & try to keep up with major issues, but that's about it. The only thing I have noticed is we've become a much more divided society, the left & right seem a lot more polarised - but maybe it's always been that way? I don't know. I just come on Mumsnet to chat about crap TV shows

[navada]

My last post was in reply to nishi.

[Dawndonna]

Mrs D V I think I luffs you!

[ComposHat]

Well said Mrs DeVere

[JakeBullet]

Not curious no flatpack....it came up on my Facebook feed and annoyed me....as it would any mother with disabled child. I couldn't give a flying fuck about the local elections just as long as UKIP don't win locally (which they won't).

Why are YOU defending them?

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm]

" Yet again, it's turned into let's slag off Guardian Readers. "

You have got to be shitting me , right.

The only,only sorts of people who regularly get a slagging on MN are Daily Mail readers.

Although links and references to the Mail Online do seem to turn up on here a fair bit......

[Dawndonna]

No. Everytime there's a benefit bashing thread or a UKIP thread there are a significant number of posters going on about middle class guardianistas.
So no, not shitting you.

[blackcats73]

Well said Mrs De vere, I'm from white working class family in the north east of England. No one from my family would dream of voting for ukip. Ukip believe in horrible divisive policies which appeal to unpleasant and selfish individuals a variety of backgrounds.

And yes they all vote labour. Some working class people still do.

[blackcats73]

Not a very coherent post above, travelling on bus, sorry

[flatpackhamster]

JakeBullet

Not curious no flatpack....it came up on my Facebook feed and annoyed me....as it would any mother with disabled child. I couldn't give a flying fuck about the local elections just as long as UKIP don't win locally (which they won't).

Why are YOU defending them?

Because I agree with some of their policies (such as leaving the EU, grammar schools, less stuff down at a central government level and far more at a local level, nuclear power to name a few), and because you were incorrect in claiming that UKIP had supported Geoffrey Clark when they hadn't, and that error needed correcting - lest you gave a false impression, and I'm sure you wouldn't have intended that.

What's been so remarkable watching this outburst of rage, which has been mirrored by the political class over the last few days, is what an utter failure it has been. UKIP's poll ratings have risen. People don't care that a few UKIP council candidates have views that the pearl-clutchers in Islington object to. And they don't like to see the establishment ganging up on the little guy. Remember UKIP's poll ratings really kicked off after the case last year when that council decided a couple were unsuitable for fostering due to their political views - they were members of UKIP.

I think they're good for politics, and I think we're very fortunate to have a political party which is outside the mainstream and which can remind our political class that they aren't representing a swathe of the country.

[Catlike]

People don't care that a few UKIP council candidates have views that the pearl-clutchers in Islington object to

So you have to be an Islington pearl clutcher, whatever the fuck that is, to object to what is essentially eugenics? Jesus Christ.

[Cookiewise]

One thing I don't understand is why when the UKIP say something anti-Semitic, they are a bunch of nazis, but when a Labour politician or someone from the Respect Party says it, nobody bats an eyelid or excuses them. As a Jew I find it worrying that any major party has candidates or politicians who spout this kind of crap.

[slug]

Interesting insult 'political class' What is it and how can I join?

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm]

See, although I am what might be called "of the right" I dislike UKIP. Putting to one side,for a moment, what individual candidates may/may not have posted on social media,at some point in the past, I think the bigger picture bears examination. The left is losing ground,fast,at the moment.On benefits reform,on immigration,on cultural integration. Lazy caricaturing of UKIP supporters as racists,bigots etc is not doing the left any favours.

The liberal,metropolitan worldview is becoming discredited. This may,or may not,turn out to be a good thing.

The cat, for instance, was well and truly let out of the bag when Gordon Brown made his "awful old bigot" remark re the older lady who had buttonholed him about immigration on the election trail. Did he believe the sentiment behind his remark? You would have thought so. Would many on the left, perhaps even on MN, have agreed with him? Again,very possibly.

Why then, instead of standing by his remark, did he instantly engage reverse at 1000mph ?

Clearly, he knew that the revelation of his real opinion of working class concerns would be electoral poison. Which it turned out to be.

Unless the left discovers some way of engaging with the concerns,genuine concerns, of ordinary working people, I fear they are doomed to a long period in the wilderness. And as someone of the right, this fills me with concern.

[Dawndonna]

People don't care that a few UKIP council candidates have views that the pearl-clutchers in Islington object to
Not in Islington. Don't own Pearls. Vehemently object to Marie Stopes type policies and have absolutely no comprehension why anyone would want to put my extraordinarily intelligent children into a 'congregate community'.
Leaving the EU doesn't mean we will save 120bn a year. We don't contribute that much to the EU.
Scrapping the Human Rights Act is not a terribly good idea, either, but UKIP would have you believe it only benefits the criminal and never the victim. Of course it benefits us all.
Why boost the military budget? We don't need to and it's not currently economically viable to do so.
With most of the proposals we'd be even more skint in ten minutes.
And as for scrapping political correctness in public affairs, that just means Farage and his ilk can say what they like, when they like without fear of repurcussions. It's outrageous.

[HollyBerryBush]

I couldn't give a flying fuck about the local elections just as long as UKIP don't win locally (which they won't).

Don't be so sure - the BNP are the voice of disaffection - of course no one ever realistically votes for them in a general election BUT they have their little pockets of followers in some areas and they romp home in council elections. It's vote people are too stupid to care about, your council election probably affects you more then your general election vote.

The next ward to me was 3 votes from BNP last council elections. That is a major cause for concern in a London Borough which has had it's fair share of multi-cultural troubles. Bexley, Welling in particular, where I used to live growing up used to be a nice little town, with normal people until the BNP arrived and opened its bookshop as guise for civil unrest. Not 3 miles away in Greenwich borough, we had the sorry state of affairs over poor Stephen Lawrence. That still kicks off today. Welling sadly is a shit hole, populated by the remaining white folks with some serious multicultural prejudices.

[navada]

Cookiewise: because UKIP are the whipping boy.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

What Catlike just said.

[Cookiewise]

HollyBerryBush. I have Jewish relatives who have lived all their lives in the East End. Since before the Respect won their seat there they get so much racist shit thrown at them and it is so much worse now that they now want to leave the area that is their home and that they have lived forever. I don't understand why there is relatively no condemnation for the Respect party when it is just as racist as the BNP just in the other direction (and it is crawling with anti-Semites) yet the left broadly support/condones it with silence. I have yet to see the kind of criticism from papers like the Guardian (bastion of anti-racism?) of this party that they are very good at heaping on the bnp. Why?

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

Well said Mrs Devere - you articulated it far better than I did / could.