...to still be sooooo angry at the UNFAIR way the Government has decided who does and doesn't get Child Benefit!

[candyandyoga]

I know it's done and dusted but I'm so fucking annoyed. How can they get away with their bonkers policy that if two people in a relationship earn just under the threshold they keep their CB but if one person earns over the threshold they lose it!?!

[expatinscotland]

Anyone age 61+ is exempt regardless if they are actually drawing a pension or not.

[Squarepebbles]

So how is that fair?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I think this government should have sorted out rents first. As Square says, they won't though as it would affect all their landowning mates and them. Instead they bring out other silly help to buy schemes that will enable the already asset rich to buy up even more properties and rent them out at exorbitant rents. They have got this so wrong that it beggars belief.

[dreamingofsun]

i think the main reason is because of the systems in place at the moment and they can't work out if 2 people get over £60k. it would cost too much to implement new systems.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

But they already do it for tax credits dreaming. Don't understand why they couldn't do it for CB

[dreamingofsun]

ihate - well in that case they should definately chop it for anyone with combined income over £60k.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Dreaming, I agree.

[VinegarDrinker]

TiredFeet - I was pointing out that rather than necessarily "penalising people who want to spend some time with their children" as another poster said, this could actually be said to do the opposite, as parents who both work reduced/moderate hours will benefit as opposed to families where one works very long hours and the other not at all.

In other words it could be seen as contributing positively to a model of more evenly shared work/childcare.

[VinegarDrinker]

ihate I would have thought anyone with a single or combined income over 60k would be well out of the threshold for TC? Is that not right? In any case the number claiming TCs must be much smaller than everyone claiming CB.

(Not defending these idiots in Govt btw, but assessing the income of every single parent in the country does seem quite a big task).

[Tabliope]

I'm also pissed off about the loss of child benefit if one in the family is earning over £50k, or whatever the threshold is. It's very unfair it has not been worked out on combined income. £50k in London doesn't get you very far when a single parent. I've also read now Cameron wants a married person tax break from November. While I know married parents are the ideal for bringing up children the vast majority haven't chosen to be single parents. I just feel as a working, single parent, bringing in over a certain threshold but not well off by any stretch of the imagination I'm completely forgotten. Not just by this government but the one before.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

But if it was incorporated into tax credits, anyone with a combined income above the threshold just wouldn't apply for it would they? We are not eligible for tax credits anymore and therefore we don't apply for them. The only people who would apply would be those who knew they were entitled.

Also, I would have thought that assessing the income for anyone with a higher rate tax payer in the house will be a big task for HMRC too, but they are quite happy and confident that there will be no problems, despite the fact that it brings in 500,000 people extra into the self-assessment system

[Takver]

I think it is a crazy policy, and I speak as someone in a two household working couple who won't be affected.

Its all very well to say 'well, one earner households save on childcare', but what about 2 earner households where all children are in secondary school?

TBH I wouldn't be that upset if we did get our CB taxed away, we are both working full time on a decent wage & we have one 11 year old. It is nice but not essential, and I would think it was fair play for that cash to be redistributed to someone out of work for example. But the way its being done is just daft.

[FredFredGeorge]

Yes the policy is unfair.

However within the constraints of individual taxation and child benefit it's probably the best that could be done. The cost overhead of introducing joint incomes would render that pointless. They do not already do it for tax credits (you have to claim those - and the cost is put on the people claiming, that wouldn't work when you're trying to get money out of people - they wouldn't do it.)

Yes it could be better if the taxation system was different such that it wasn't individual taxation, so tax credits could be automatic and collection of these could be easier. However that would just lead to a completely different set of losers and costs - there'd be little point a partner of someone earning over 60k (or whatever) taking on any work as they'd immediately be taxed at a very high rate on all earnings.

I'm sure if there was a combined income limit, the limit would've been set a lot lower too.

[VinegarDrinker]

Are those half a million the partners of the high earners ihate ? Aren't you exempt from self assessment if you earn under the personal allowance?

It would seem the most logical step to stop CB for everyone and just increase CTC by the same amount to compensate rather than running two schemes, then? (in my simplistic and non economically minded head!).

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Vinegar, the 500,000 people are the higher rate tax payers themselves. So for example, my dh is currently self-assessment and PAYE, therefore he doesn't need to complete a self-assessment. However, because I claim CB for 3 dc, he will now have to complete a tax return to HMRC stating that I claim CB. HMRC will then claim back the money from him, either in a lump sum or via an adjusted tax code. What could possibly go wrong?

I agree about increasing CTC for those in need BTW.

[VinegarDrinker]

Oh, i thought all higher rate tax payers already had to complete a self assessment? Is that not the case?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Sorry Vinegar, that is not meant to say that my dh is currently self-assessment and PAYE. He IS currently PAYE and therefore NOT self-assessment. Don't know what's the matter with me this morning

[ihategeorgeosborne]

No Vinegar, only those earning over 100k have to self-assess at present. This is the other issue. My dh will now have to self-assess, having never had to previously and he is having money that is paid to me removed from him

[LittleBearPad]

It's likely to be the high earners filling out self assessment forms. If a SAHM continues to claim CB when her partner/husband is a higher rate tax payment then he has to do self assessment and confirm CB has been claimed. He then repays it as additional tax owed.

You can claim CB without actually being paid the cash in order to protect your NI credits for your state pension if a SAHM. Then your partner/husband doesn't need to do self assessment (unless for other reasons ie earns over £100,000, CGT to pay etc.

[VinegarDrinker]

Ah, I see. But it only takes a couple of mins to self assess online if you are exclusively PAYE surely? I know it's a hassle but hardly too onerous. (Never done one for me but DH is self employed although well below the threshold).

Our CB goes into our joint acct. It isn't necessarily paid to the mother.

[sweetkitty]

Seesensepeople -you are the exact person this has hit the hardest, why should you as a working single parent lose your CB yet 2 people earning more than you get to keep it.

I'm still livid about it as well yet am not allowed to moan as I'm too rich apparently, we have 4 DC we have lost 3K a year which amounts to 5K before tax, we are also paying more tax due to the drop in the higher rate tax bracket, yet I have to listen to my 2 friends both earning 45K each getting to keep it for their one child. If anyone apart from the super rich lost 5K a year they would moan.

Or I have to listen to my friends earning a lot more than us but because thy are self employed and can do nice little legal tax dodges they get to keep it too.

It is unfair but compared to what they are doing to disabled people it's nothing that's not unfair it's down right disgusting.

[VinegarDrinker]

How is the amount it would be before tax if it was earned income got to do with anything?!

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Maybe not too onerous vinegar, but it still feels like a kick in the guts to have something removed from your family that you know is still being received by many families on a higher income. No one will ever convince me that this policy is fair.

[infamouspoo]

It doesnt affect me but its bonkers. But its keeping people distracted while they cut the social care budget by 33%. Thats the budget that pays for home care for the elderly, meals on wheels, respite care for families with disabled children, in home care for disabled aults (where someone visits to put you on the toilet 3 times a day) etc.
33%. A third.
Oh, and privatises the NHS.
The list goes on...

[VinegarDrinker]

I don't think it's fair either, but I don't think the self assessment "burden" is a great argument against it.

Just scrap it and add it to CTC.