to be furious at dh for leaving DD (7) and DS (3) at home for 5 mins?

[toomanyeasterbunnies]

DH popped out to end of road in car to get some bread. He made sure DD knew how to call him and he went out for no longer than five mins. I am furious. He thinks I am over-reacting. Am I?

[BigBoobiedBertha]

muminthecity - accident is more about delays that DH being hurt although he could be, of course. I would have thought a minor prang in the car park was most likely (especially if somebody was rushing) but it would be unlikely to result in injury. However, it would add more time onto the trip which is not a good thing if you have left a 3 yr old home with only a 7 yr old for company.

[BigBoobiedBertha]

Can I also just say that it makes a difference where you live too. If you live in a quiet residential area where the children know the neighbours and they are in, it is a whole world of difference to living next to a busy road where the children face danger should they step outside. I think this is a consideration because a panicked 7 yr old may well go for help if something happens or a 3 yr old may panic is they realise their parents have disappeared. You could of course lock them in but that leads to a whole other set of issues.

Of course, non of these issues are things you need to even consider if you just don't leave 2 small children alone.

[anastaisia]

I wouldn't leave the 7 year old with the 3 year old. Might possibly have taken the 3 year old and left the 7 year old if it was a walk up to the top of the road shop not a car trip, depending on the 7 year old.

[crashdoll]

LouLouH It is still not a safeguarding issue, although there are obviously risks. I'm an almost qualified social worker. I know the law very well in this area thanks to experience and study.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

I think it's fine - not sure about the car part, but if the shop is literally round the corner, 3 year old is engaged in something, 7yo is sensible, less than 5 minutes isn't a problem IMO.

[LouLouH]

crashdoll thats odd because a previous poster who said they work for ssd said it woukd be an issue.

[LouLouH]

Its the age old problem of parents clearly not being given clear advise and guidance/education on matters that concern their children. All the time there are contradictions even by professionals.

[FreckledLeopard]

Would depend on the children I think. If both the seven year old and three year old are generally sensible, and it's literally five minutes round the corner, then it might be ok to leave them.

If you think about developing countries, six year olds routinely 'look after' younger siblings, carry babies around with them scavenging whilst parents try to make ends meet. I think with the luxury we have in this country of not having to do that, it runs the risk of becoming hysterical at things that, 100 years ago, would be considered utterly normal.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Yanbu, a 3yo needs supervision by an adult. Personally i wouldn't leave a 7yo either, but that's because my near 7yo is quite immature.

[thebody]

No he should have waited or taken them both with him.

It takes seconds for a child to be hurt in the home or a fire to start.

Still I suppose its each to their own but we wouldn't have.

It's a bit like the McCann case, polarised attitudes.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Crashdoll,

I strongly surgest you ask someone who is actually qualified about this. As quite frankly the very thought of someone who wouldn't bat an eyelid at a 3 yo being left home alone being responsible for professionally advising parents is unnerving.

It has future serious case review written all over it.

If your nearly qualified then you know damn well that lots of the work sw do would be outside of things totally defined by law many of the things you come across will be covered by broader things like neglect or emotional abuse

[crashdoll]

Sock Could you turn down the patronising tone. I was complaining about those who were completely OTT. If you were less pearly clutchy, you would have seen I said it was unacceptable and risky but as an isolated incident, not enough to mean the OP's children are as risk of significant harm. That was all! Way to put the fear of God in some people.

[crashdoll]

Leaving young children on their own repeatedly is neglect. Doing it as a one-off is a bad mistake and not one to be repeated IMO.

[reluctantmover]

We don't know the past history of the children.
We don't know exactly how far this shop was.
We don't know whether the house has locks which can be easily opened by 3 year olds.
We don't know what the road outside the home is like.

On the small amount we do know, it was a very unwise decision. If it it were happening often, on the small amount we know, it would be a real safeguarding issue. It's really hard to judge when you're not their witnessing it and reading it on a public forum.

In our neighbour's case it was the second time they had lost one of their under 5s and the Police had been called. It was followed up by a neighbour reporting the family to SS and that neighbour was verbally abused by the dad as a result (I was shocked, given the profession of the dad and his standing in the community) for putting his concern for the children before a potential argument with neighbours. I admit I also phoned SS whereas my neighbour wrote a letter and SS rather stupidly told the family who kept losing the children which neighbour had reported them and how (so much for confidentiality, that's why I phoned)!

[LouLouH]

crashdoll you were complaining about those who were completely OTT?!!!!! Everyone raises their children different, however when the authorities agree with the majority of people on here that it is a neglectful thing to do, how is that people are being OTT? It is because of the reasons people have stated that it is classes as a downright idiotic thing to do! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you agree to disagree, not complain about their views.

[crashdoll]

FFS I agreed as a one-off it was bad thing to do. But squeaking about safeguarding was OTT in that it could have scared someone. I am allowed to say what I like! And I complained because I don't need my professional judgement questioned by randomers on MN. I was trying to reassure the OP, not freak her the fuck out. Sorry if that offended you!

[TheChaoGoesMu]

LouLouH It is still not a safeguarding issue, although there are obviously risks. I'm an almost qualified social worker. I know the law very well in this area thanks to experience and study.

Goodness me crashdoll. This is a safeguarding issue. As a completely qualified social worker with over 20 years of experience I suggest you go back to those books and keep reading. And exercise a little common sense before you pick up your certificate of qualification. It is never acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in charge of a 3 year old in the uk, whilst you go off for a jaunt down the road in the car. Ok? I'm telling you this because I'm sure you would hate to see yourself on the front page of some tatty newspaper because of a very bad error of judgement.

[olgaga]

Well I don't have any SW qualifications. You don't actually need any to be a parent!

Yes it was a stupid thing to do, and yes OP in my opinion, you are right to be concerned and to express to your DH your concern and insist that it shouldn't happen again.

As I said upthread I did have to leave my nearly 5 yo DD in the house alone once when she was ill and I desperately needed milk and bread, and had absolutely no other way of getting it.

None of us know what kind of preparation your DH put into place in terms of what was said before he left the house, and how he left them.

The important thing here is that your DH comes to understand and accept that it was wrong, that anything could have happened, and it shouldn't be repeated. Perhaps having a "furious" conversation isn't the best way to achieve that.

Is he always this stupid? Or was it a one-off?

Last I heard, there aren't exactly enough SWs to police every single mistake a parent makes. You would need a SW for every family if every potentially harmful incident became a "safeguarding issue".

[LeoandBoosmum]

Not worth the risk. Don't know why your dh didn't just put the kids in the car and take them along?

[TheChaoGoesMu]

Last I heard, there aren't exactly enough SWs to police every single mistake a parent makes. You would need a SW for every family if every potentially harmful incident became a "safeguarding issue".^

You might be right. Lucky for so many families that thinks its ok to do that kind of stuff then. Until something goes badly wrong

[crashdoll]

Goodness me crashdoll. This is a safeguarding issue. As a completely qualified social worker with over 20 years of experience I suggest you go back to those books and keep reading. And exercise a little common sense before you pick up your certificate of qualification. It is never acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in charge of a 3 year old in the uk, whilst you go off for a jaunt down the road in the car. Ok? I'm telling you this because I'm sure you would hate to see yourself on the front page of some tatty newspaper because of a very bad error of judgement.

Why are my posts being ignored?! I said it was completely unacceptable and risky even as a one-off. I'm not thick and I am not pretending I know it all nor that I am an expert. I was just trying to reassure the OP that her children were not going to get whipped away by social services. As a social worker, you will know the irrational fear people have of SS and SWers. I never once said it was acceptable so please don't make out that I did.

[MrsMelons]

I am astonished people would leave unwell 4/5 YO in the house to get bread and milk. They are not exactly emergency supplies.

I am in agreement with Lovepickcles I don't actually know anyone who has left a child under 10 at home alone let alone looking after an infant (unless with an older sibling). I live in a busy city so pretty much every street is very busy with cars etc so maybe we think slightly differently?!

[kinkyfuckery]

olgaga

There's no such thing as a 'desperate need for bread and milk'

[olgaga]

I am astonished people would leave unwell 4/5 YO in the house to get bread and milk. They are not exactly emergency supplies.

Was that aimed at me? I'm afraid if nothing tempts an ill 4 yo with chicken pox which doesn't involve bread/milk or ice lollies, you are two days away from your other half arriving home, having just moved, knowing no-one around you and with no family to call on, then you do it.

Obviously you don't just walk out the door. Which is why I raised the issue of what preparations the DH had made in terms of what was said to the children and how they were left.

[MrsMelons]

Not specifically just at you Olgaga, someone else mentioned it upthread also.

I already said I may think differently as no one I know has ever left a child that young at home regardless. I think it was the way you and the other poster said emergency supplies bread and milk.

Sorry - I was shocked more than being judgemental and couldn't understand why you wouldn't do an online shop, drive thru Macdonalds or give them something else. There are plenty of people of think its ok so its only my opinion.