Landlord problems, aibu?

[SlipperFrog]

I realise legally I am being UR but please bear with me!

We rent and have 3 young DC. Our previous home was sold quickly & unexpectedly by the landlord so we needed to move. Rent had skyrocketed and we found somewhere but it meant losing a bedroom and our rent went up by £150 a month.

The landlord wanted £1150 pm for a 2 bed house, we offered him 6 months rent up front if he would reduce the rent to £1050 pm which he accepted.

He has now asked for the next 6 months up front, we didn't realise we had agreed to this but on closer inspection it is in the contract... We are facing major financial problems and can't afford to pay him 6 month up front but have offered him 3 months, then another 3 months. He's said no, if we want to do that he will put our rent back up to £1150PM... We are really worried, aibu or is the landlord?

[CajaDeLaMemoria]

Both of the agencies I've used recently have updated my credit file with the details of the let. Both when I left.

Going to court will also likely leave a mark, because the OP risks a CCJ if the rent can't be settled in full.

What's vital here is more information about the contract. It makes all the difference.

[NotDavidTennant]

I would strongly advise you to get down to your local CAB and get some proper advice.

It doesn't sound like he actually has any legal basis to demand you pay extra, but it might be that he will start eviction proceedings if you don't. However, he will not be able to evict just like that, there is a legal process which may require court proceedings and where possibly you could argue you case for monthly payments. This is why you need to get proper professional advice to see whether this would apply to your case, or whether if you refuse to pay extra you're on a hiding to nothing.

[RapunzelAteMyHamster]

He offered you a discount based on paying a lump sum. You aren't paying in a lump sum any more, so no discount. I don't understand what else you would expect really?

I rent a property out where the tenant pays in six monthly blocks. I much prefer it, and would probably offer a discount based on it for other tenants for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you don't have to worry about whether the tenant is going to pay late regularly or "be a bit short this month" or require chasing around trying to get money. If you have a btl montage which the rent goes to, that can be an absolute bloody killer. You've got all the money in your bank and you can apportion it without worrying. Plus, if you have some kind of unexpected issue, like an expensive appliance or heating system going bust, you've got the cash ready to fix it.

From a landlord's point of view, you are presenting all the signs of someone who's going to be a nightmare tenant, and is likely to just stop paying the rent at some stage. Because it's your second ever payment, and you, from his perspective are already trying it on, can't manage the payments, haven't read the contract...he might well decide that it's better to get shot of you now, before you start paying monthly, then decide that you haven't read the contract and stop paying every month because you didn't realise you had to etc etc.

You know (I assume) that you're not that tenant. But you've shown him no evidence to the contrary, so you really need to start thinking about the kind of tenant you're presenting yourself as, otherwise you're at risk of making him think better to evict you now and chase you through the courts, before you have a chance to really cause more problems. I don't want to be harsh, but I do want you to see it from the other side, because you'll end up in more trouble if you really believe that the landlord is being unreasonable. You need to be the conciliatory one here, you're not the wronged party. Can you manage to offer him two payments of £1100?

[SlipperFrog]

I don't know, the more I think about it the more I think we aren't being incredibly UR, we have given him 6 months up front, and are offering him 2 lots of £3150 rather than one lot of £6300. We are still paying him what he asked, just in two lots rather than one.

[AnyoneforTurps]

It doesn't sound like he actually has any legal basis to demand you pay extra

Arrgh - please read the OP. He isn't demanding extra. The OP asked for - and got - a £600 discount in return for paying the 1st 6 months up front. The landlord - quite understandably - doesn't want to continuing offering a discount if he is not going to continue to get the upfront payment.

I feel sorry for the OP but I also think the landlord is not BU. He may depend on rental income to cover his own mortgage and other expenses. He has already been pretty accommodating by giving the original discount.

[Bearbehind]

^slipper* why did you bother posting, you think you are right, legally you are not if you have signed a contract agreeing to these terms. You have no choice, if he evicted you, you are still liable for the rent until the end of the tenancy.

If you can negotiate a better deal then great but if not, it's tough shit really, lesson learnt, read all contracts in future. You got a discount for paying six months in advance, you can't move the goalposts.

In your position I'd offer £3,300 now then the same in 3 months- it's half the discount for half the payment terms. The landlord has no obligation to accept but he might.

[Astley]

How is he getting what he wants?! He's giving you a £100 a month discount for specific terms you're already trying to break!

[CloudsAndTrees]

But you are being incredibly unreasonable. You are trying to change the terms contract you signed just six months ago.

I can completely see where enough are coming from and I can see why it would seem harsh of the LL to not allow you to pay in two blocks. But you have to see that you have been given a significant discount based on you paying six months up front. If you aren't able to do that, you have to accept that you are no longer entitled to the discount.

[Uppermid]

Sorry but I think yabu. You knew the price but managed to negotiate down for a lump sum, you can't expect him to keep it at that price on a monthly basis. Not what you want to hear I know.

[RapunzelAteMyHamster]

That's exactly the attitude that will get you evicted.
He owes you no favours. How on earth is he to know you'll really give him the next block of three months, in three months time? You've hardly given him reason to trust you?

If it was my property, I'd be double checking my legal position, and as soon as your underpayment hit my bank account, I'd take whatever option got you out quickest, breach of contract, whatever, so I could get another tenant in who would pay the rent that I was expecting to get (£1150) in the first place, which would leave me least out of pocket,

[NotDavidTennant]

AnyoneforTurps: 'Arrgh - please read the OP. He isn't demanding extra.'

The rental agreement will say something to the effect that the montly rent is £x. Unless there's a clause that says that the rent rises to £x + 100 if the tenant doesn't pay in six month blocks (and my understanding from what the OP has written so far is that there's no such clause), then the landlord is entitled to rent of £x and not a penny more. The fact that the landlord considered this to be a discounted rate is neither here nor there, he has no right to unilaterally raise the rent even if the OP is technically in breach of contract.

[CloudsAndTrees]

There may be that technicality NotDavid, but it would be pretty shitty behaviour on OPs part to know that she had negotiated a discount on the basis that she was going to pay six months in advance and then expect the discount to still be honoured when she isn't honouring her side of the deal.

[AnyoneforTurps]

e fact that the landlord considered this to be a discounted rate is neither here nor there, he has no right to unilaterally raise the rent even if the OP is technically in breach of contract.

Of course he does - assuming it's a standard assured shorthold tenancy lease. The current issue is the rent for the second 6 months of the lease - the OP has already paid the 1st 6 months up front. Provided he gives due notice, the landlord is perfectly entitled to raise the rent as much as he likes for the 2nd 6 months. He is not retrospectively raising the rent for the 1st 6 months of the tenancy.

And how would you expect rent to be raised, other than unilaterally? Not many tenants volunteer for rent rises! Perhaps you mean retrospectively?

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

OP is unlikely to be evicted if she pays 3 + 3 months. Landlord could take her to court for breach of contract, but a judge is unlikely to grant the eviction where there are no rent arrears. OP is making a reasonable offer.

[RapunzelAteMyHamster]

But he's entitled to rent of exactly £x, not a penny more, in one payment. It's not a monthly rent term, it's a six monthly rent term.

If you had a weekly rent, and suddenly decided to pay it monthly instead then you'd be in the wrong and depending on how the contract was written, be in breach of it. This is no different.

OP, it's possible you can get away with underpaying. You might be "lucky" and the contract isn't watertight, he'll find out it's unenforceable legally and not be able to evict you now. He's going to do it on the dot of six months time though, unless you work with him, you'll get your notice to leave in 4 months and then you'll be looking for somewhere les, with no reference and all associated moving costs.

[specialsubject]

it sounds like the landlord is also in financial difficulties - the sum under discussion is £600 so if BOTH parties don't have that as 'flex' or savings it isn't good.

OP - as you know you are legally committed and the landlord is being perfectly reasonable. You are given big signals of 'tenant likely to default'

all I can suggest is to meet the landlord, have a frank discussion and see if either of you can afford to compromise. And you need to look long-term at reducing your expenses, whatever it takes, because if you are in this much trouble over £600, your situation is not sustainable.

good luck.

[Bearbehind]

Special why does the landlord have to be in financial difficulties because he doesn't agree to reducing the rent that he is contractually entitled to???

[RapunzelAteMyHamster]

He's not reducing the rent it's the payment terms they're arguing about.

He is under no obligation to do anything other than require the 6 month lump sum. He's offered OP another option, which is to pay monthly, but at a higher rate. He doesn't have to offer that, but he is, which is some give on his part, as he will have planned his finances around one lump sum, and now that will change.

[FredFredGeorge]

AnyoneforTurps No the landlord would have to give 1 rental period notice in an AST for a rent increase ie he could give notice now for 6 months time - but can't before.

And yes the landlord can evict you - of course if he does that, he's faced with a tennant who's either not going to show anyone around, or happily show people around and tell them exactly what a shit the landlord is evicting good paying tennants over a misleading contract.

The landlord is likely to lose a lot more than the interest on the a few months. However not paying your 2nd rent payment is a big red flag, so it would be sensible for the landlord to maybe get rid the tennants as soon as possible. However the 1 or indeed 3 month offer to pay would be silly to reject.

Given the landlord has to take reasonable steps to find a new tennant during the 6 months the OP is liable, and the OP is offering to pay the rent throughout that period, I think it unlikely that the court would look favourably on the landlord - who's being pretty silly as described.

[zoobaby]

I think I read upthread that you have no break clause. If landlord decides he wants you out due to breach of contract, then a Section 21 notice covers one rent period. In your case, your rent period is SIX MONTHS and he therefore can't do anything about evicting you immediately. So you have a little protection from being turfed out willy-nilly.

If you break your contract then he has legal protection. It will just take some time and money and inconvenience. So, who knows, he may be willing to compromise.

If he has to go down a legal route, then don't expect to pass any future vetting processes. How successful will future housing endeavours be with that hanging over your head?

The best solution is to have a frank talk. If he wants extra money to change to monthly payments then you really must get a brand new assured shorthold tenancy agreement. Read it carefully and make sure you understand the contents and each side's responsibilities.

[NotDavidTennant]

AnyoneforTurps: 'Of course he does - assuming it's a standard assured shorthold tenancy lease. The current issue is the rent for the second 6 months of the lease - the OP has already paid the 1st 6 months up front. Provided he gives due notice, the landlord is perfectly entitled to raise the rent as much as he likes for the 2nd 6 months.'

england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/386455/Factsheet_Rent_increases_ASTs.pdf

"Some tenancies are for a fixed period. If there is isn?t a provision in a fixed-term agreement for the landlord to increase the rent, the rent will remain the same unless you agree to a rent increase."

Pretty sure that the OP has said that she is on a one year lease, so the landlord cannot unilaterally change the rent during that year.

[specialsubject]

bearbehind (Love it!) - I agree entirely that the landlord doesn't have to agree to anything not in the contract. But it costs a lot more to replace a tenant, possibly with a void, then to let this one change things for the sake of £600 - two weeks with the place empty and that's gone, plus he will be paying the council tax.

the landlord is perfectly entitled to insist on the contract. but with this tenant in financial trouble, it would seem pragmatic to take the money offered for now.

what would I do? I'd take the 3 months and give the tenant 3 months notice, as it sounds like they will default sooner or later.

[zoobaby]

Landlord can raise the rent after the initial contract period (one year) using a Section 13 notice. But raising the rent is not the question.

The question is the CONTRACTED OBLIGATION for 6 months of rent (your landlord is NBU to expect that you were putting aside 1 month of rent each month so you could make your 6 monthly installment when expected).

You've unknowingly put yourself into an unfortunate situation that needs to be negotiated.

[Gomez]

Yes you are being unreasonable. The earlier negotiations are neither here or there. You signed a contract which required the rent to be paid 6 monthly in advance at x rate. You can't meet those terms.

Practically pay what you can and be as reasonable and apologetic as possible to prevent the landlord taking action. But be prepared to be served notice, you will be moving on in 6 months. Likely with no reference.

[NotDavidTennant]

RapunzelAteMyHamster: 'But he's entitled to rent of exactly £x, not a penny more, in one payment. It's not a monthly rent term, it's a six monthly rent term.'

But the OP didn't realise this and doesn't have the six months rent. The landlord could have legal entitlement to the moon on a stick, but if the tenant doesn't have it then they can't pay it. Some kind of compromise needs to be reached.

Or perhaps you're correct that the landlord will move straight to eviction proceedings, in which case there's nothing the OP can do about it anway. But as others point out, there may be impediments to the landlord evicting the OP before the end of the current tenancy. That's why she needs to seek professional advice on her situation.