To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

[chicaguapa]

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it.

[TheBigJessie]

Tony and Cherie Blair are politicians/lawyers, and probably just as susceptible to "gut feelings" and misinformation. Not scientists. I wouldn't take their scientific advice.

Besides, consider Cherie's very alternative sister, who could have been responsible for their possible decision not to vaccinate! I remember Lauren's columns in the Times or the Telegraph.

[chicaguapa]

It may have been longer ago, I don't know. It was definitely pre-DD who's 11. It might have been 1992, but that would have made the DD 23 now. It's possible I suppose as the mum is old enough. You've made me wonder now. I don't think she would have made it up though. How sad, I've never thought of her being a statistic.

[Wannabestepfordwife]

Yanbu I only had mmr in dec/jan and wish I had it as a child I got mumps and inkefilitus (think that's how you spell it) I was was very ill for a long time and I'm so lucky to have no lasting damage.

Dd will definately have it

[tilder]

EllieArroway I like the tin pot hat. Sounds rather appropriate.

[EllieArroway]

"10% have legitimate concerns about previous bad reactions and so on"

Well, a medically justifiable reason, then. Some people's older children had bad reactions and some people's children had bad reactions to the first dose. Some people are advised NOT to have their children vaccinated, for many and various reasons.

I think you know what I meant.

[Loshad]

The main problem with single jabs is getting parents to bring their child in sufficient times to complete all vaccinations, and the risk of infection during this much extended phase of vaccination. It is hard enough for many parents to find the time to bring their children in for the current number of vaccinations.

[BlueberryHill]

Listening to R4 today, they also stated that the Blairs had vaccinated their child, but decided to maintain their privacy.

It was Selwyn Gummer with the beefburger, in the library.


Extract from the BBC News about AW being struck off, 24 May 2010
"The GMC ruled in January he had acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly" in conducting his research...

The case did not investigate whether Dr Wakefield's findings were right or wrong, instead it focused on the methods of research.

During the two-and-a-half-year case, the longest in GMC history, he was accused of carrying out invasive tests on vulnerable children which were against their best interests. The GMC also said Dr Wakefield, who was working at London's Royal Free Hospital as a gastroenterologist at the time, did not have the ethical approval or relevant qualifications for such tests. And the panel hearing the case took exception with the way he gathered blood samples. Dr Wakefield paid children £5 for the samples at his son's birthday party.

It also said Dr Wakefield should have disclosed the fact that he had been paid to advise solicitors acting for parents who believed their children had been harmed by the MMR.

In making the verdict on the sanctions, Dr Surendra Kumar, the panel's chairman, said Dr Wakefield had "brought the medical professional into disrepute" and his behaviour constituted "multiple separate instances of serious professional misconduct".

In total, there were more than 30 charges he was found guilty of. "

[saintlyjimjams]

Ellie - that BMJ article is seriously flawed (can't be bothered to go into it here, think I probably have before). I just wondered whether anyone had any evidence on fraud other than that.

The arguments about dx are all rather amusing (to someone who has been in the autism game for longer than they would like). Especially with the publication of DSM-V which will lump CDD in with ASD.

[EllieArroway]

Bolded the wrong bit.

[EllieArroway]

Oh, the BMJ article is flawed. OK. Odd that that hasn't occurred to any medical professional with expertise in this area at all - or that a single one of the many, many studies trying to replicate Wakefield's findings has managed to.

Fair enough

[Sugarice]

Yabu to say he should have blood on his hands.

The government sought to discredit him when he made his concerns known. They have succeeded and ruined his name.

I read up on his views and researched thoroughly, at the time I had to do my ds's jabs there was a well read Japanese study supporting Dr Wakefield's theory.

He isn't the devil some parents think!

[lottieandmia]

It is very rude to call people who have concerns about vaccination 'tin hat wearers'

There is at least 1 well known Mner who knows her child regressed following the MMR.

[LottieJenkins]

My late dh and I made the decision in 1996/7 not to let Wilf have the MMR. Not because of the autism logic but because he had fits at three weeks of age and our late much missed GP told us we had to decide as he couldnt guarantee that the fits wouldnt happen again if he had the jabs. We decided against and Dr N said we had made the right decision.

[saintlyjimjams]

Well it has occurred to some of the doctors I have spoken to Ellie. VERY relevant for me to discuss with them as I have a child who regressed and will require 24 hour care 1:1 for the rest of his life, who has siblings. The doctors have their own views which might surprise some. Doctors working in research are always willing to share their thoughts.

Medics/researchers opinions are (rightly) often highly qualified, but they usually happy to discuss - the more senior they are the more they're happy to discuss all the issues ime. On the whole I find most doctors would rather see politics out of decisions for individual patients on the whole.

[CoteDAzur]

I still don't know what a "legitimate reason" would be.

Is it legitimate not to vaccinate against rubella since this is a very benign disease for children and it is actually best for your DD to have it than rely on fading vaccine immunity which may or may not cover her during her childbearing years?

Is it legitimate to refuse MMR because you are unable to brand as idiots all those parents who are convinced that their babies had terrible reactions to this vaccine before they started to regress?

[carlywurly]

I'm actually on the fence about this one. I've read of several parents on here whose children have regressed shortly following the mmr, I've no reason to doubt them. It seems its rare, but it can happen. On the other hand, encephalitis nearly killed a close family member. Measles is deadly.

It's a nightmare decision. My dc's were vaccinated, but I was incredibly reluctant tbh, and neither of them had the 2nd jab. Ds1 actually has mild asd but I have no concerns about a link to the mmr in his case. The signs were there prior to the jab.

On balance, I think I'd still vaccinate but totally understand those who aren't keen.

And I'm not sure Wakefield is the demon he's made out to be either.

[Softlysoftly]

Bloody hell that's near me I've been ill hadn't heard it. Dd2 hasn't had the mmr (10 months) should I bring it forwards? ??

So in fact yanbu I'm going to have to vaccinate early because of this shit.

[poppypebble]

I was a healthy 4 month old baby. I nearly died from measles. I still have eyesight problems caused by measles. Please vaccinate your children.

[saintlyjimjams]

softly - be careful about vaccinating early. If you vaccinate early you risk the vaccinating not working due to passive immunity from you. You may be refused an early vaccination for this reason. If you were vaccinated then it is quite likely that your baby does not have immunity and that the vaccination will work. If however, you had measles yourself then it is more likely that your baby still has some immunity and you would need a further dose after 13 months. So you would have to have three doses between now and the pre-school booster.

Scroll down to page 8 for HPA advice on assessing susceptibility in infants

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

Article about Mr Wakefield in the Guardian magazine today

[Viviennemary]

I have my doubts about the safety of this vaccine. And I'm sure I read some parents in the USA got paid millions in compensation. Without the company admitting fault.

[CoteDAzur]

"If you vaccinate early you risk the vaccinating not working"

True.

I had measles as a baby, then went on to have it again at age 8. I was too young to form full immunity to it the first time I had it.

[saintlyjimjams]

Yes there have been payouts in the States, and Italy.

There seems to be a developing narrative that MMR can be a trigger in cases of mitochondrial dysfunction. I watch the developments with interest.

[saintlyjimjams]

That link above is an interesting read cote - I was slightly shocked by the comment whilst infants of naturally immune mothers are likely to have protective antibody levels until 6 months of age, a significant proportion of those born to vaccinated mothers may not have protective titres from birth

[Viviennemary]

If it is safe why has there been payouts in the USA and Italy. That would raise alarm bells for me. Mine didn't have it.