To think that grammar/spelling standards are not what they were?

[Meandmarius]

I'm mid 30's and have noticed that most of my friends/peers are able to distinguish between 'your and you're', 'where, were, we're' and using the words 'have' and 'of' correctly.
I've noticed that in younger generations there just doesn't seem to be the same standard anymore and I wonder why that is.
Not saying for one minute that my own sp. and grammar is perfect - it isn't. I just wonder if there is as much emphasis on it nowadays as there was back in the day..

[happynappies]

I agree with a lot of the points that have been made. My dd is only six, and her teacher doesn't correct her spelling. She is very creative, and writes constantly - stories, letters, you name it. For example, "...thar wance was a very por family they lived nestor to a very rich man... a magical story for everyone to enjoy". I love to see her budding creativity, but just want to correct her spelling all the time. Is it really wrong for youngsters to learn to spell correctly? I genuinely don't know what to do. When I asked the teacher she said it would become very negative if you were picking at every word constantly, and would switch the children off from writing... interested in what others think - what do you do with your own dcs writing?

[happynappies]

for once autocorrect has actually corrected correctly. It was a 'magicl story for everone to engoy'

[Sallystyle]

My grammar used to be horrendous, it is a lot better now, but still very poor. I am having to teach myself and I can't remember learning much about grammar at school at all. I am 31.

My teenagers grammar is pretty poor as well and when I asked him if he has been taught the correct use of apostrophes yet he said he hadn't.

I have a few teens on my FB and their spelling is awful and everyone one of them seem to confuse there/their/they're etc so I do wonder why schools aren't working harder on teaching basic grammar.

I am a good speller but grammar and punctuation often confuses me.

[Hamishbear]

Many get it eventually if they read but this new generation don't read so much I think. Other countries have no aversion to the red pen. Speak to anyone educated elsewhere in Europe (usually with spelling in English that puts ours to shame) and tell them having spelling corrected destroys creativity and they'll laugh in your face. It wasn't like that for them and they are not shells of people with their self esteem destroyed (I've found).

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

'whether the grammatical structures work or do not', I would have said.

Interesting what you say about English and versatility - surely the fact you'd put 'if' and I would choose 'whether', in that sentence, is evidence of versatility and so is the fact English (unlike French) really can evolve new grammar without any panel of experts to insist it stagnates?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

'Other countries have no aversion to the red pen.'

Which ones, specifically?

[SecretLindtBunny]

I did indeed pronounce the "t"

[GraceSpeaker]

Colons and semicolons are both used to connected related sentences without using a conjunction. Simple guide here: www.colonsemicolon.com/

A great deal of my understanding of grammar comes from studying Latin (at a state school) rather than English, because the terms were taught explicitly and explained properly. I do remember a project in English when we were 13 (I'm 30) where we were allowed to choose an aspect of grammar to research and create a booklet on. I chose apostrophes and have always been able to use them confidently since.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of young people know they need to spell, punctuate and use grammar correctly in formal writing (which is taught in schools as a specific topic), but aren't convinced that they need to use it elsewhere ("but this isn't an English essay"). Thus, they don't necessarily get as much practice as they could. I have to say that I do mark SPAG in red and I don't teach English. I also often find myself teaching it (Y10 have been repeatedly taken through the uses of affect/effect/effect and actually find it very interesting).

Poor spelling and grammar certainly aren't limited to young people, however. I see plenty of appalling writing all over the internet. The youth of today can't be blamed if they're learning from bad examples.

[ComposHat]

I try not to be pedantic about these things, I know my grammar isn't perfect and I am aware that someone could always out-pedant me when it comes to grammar.

If some one writes something with a stray possessive apostrophe or confuses tenses, I try and look beyond it and look at their argument, rather than getting hung up on these things however much they get on my tits

Full on grammar Nazis can come across as being supercilious shits who see the inflexible application of rules learned by rote as a substitute for intelligence or thought.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Well said, I agree.

[Hamishbear]

LaQueen is spot on when she says: Sadly, it's largely due to the en masse dumbing down of English, in order to make it more accessible, and bite sized and more glittery...to ensure we have as many as people as possible using a slovenly, pidgin English. Result...

Twas over so though. Writing standards have been steadily declining over time and given that I doubt any child will pick up let alone read an unabridged children's classic in a few years it's the way of the future. You'll be judged at how creative and adept you are with 'Digital Communication' as LaQueen puts it. The sad thing is when the death knell sounds in that respect and the reading of any sort of quality literature (which I fear will follow) in favour of the excerpt quickly follows we may see children's concentration, powers of analysis and deduction, memory, ability to persevere all also steadily decline.

[MrsGrumps]

Emails I receive from work colleagues who use incorrect SP&G get sent back with corrections made in red.

Does tend to be the younger members of staff rather than the older ones, but I do bite my tongue from doing that to the MD though!

[JustinBsMum]

My written work has improved immensely through using mumsnet and similar and writing emails.

So I would think many younger people's will have too.

And if you can't spell your question correctly Google won't find it.

Unless they only ever txt to their equally illiterate friends!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I don't believe that's true about 'dumbing down'. As for 'pidgin English' - English started out as a 'pidgin' language. That's in its roots. Are we really suggesting that the language of Chaucer was 'slovenly'?

I don't believe that digital communication is a language in itself, so I don't really see how you could describe the mixture as pidgin anyway.

This hysteria about dumbing down is ridiculous. Every few generations it happens about something or other. If you look at Shakespeare's older colleagues, they were saying these things about him.

I am pretty sure this storm in a teacup will seem equally laughable to later generations.

[lisson]

It does matter, but has anyone else noticed that they keep putting typos into things even though they absolutely know what it should be? Reading back what I've written, I often find that I've written their when I mean there or to when I know its too.
Maybe others are like me, and as a result, forums and status posts on facebook etc give a worse impression than the reality?

[limitedperiodonly]

Wow mrsgrumps, colleagues, you say? As in your equals at work? Don't hold out much hope for your leaving collection.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

It's muscle memory, sometimes, isn't it?

I also think with some people it's affectation, like the way my little brother carefully removed all the consonants from his speech when he wanted to look cool.

[Hamishbear]

Feminist Dragon you are right in that language evolves. I think the way of the future is as LaQueen describes and I can't help feeling we are losing something important. I've said it before too but barely any children will be reading children's classics and novels in 20 years (unless they are bite-sized or interactive in some form). It makes me feel rather sad, we stand to lose so much I think.

[ComposHat]

LaQueen Of course people should be able to write communicate clearly and consistently, but it doesn't need to be taken to the Nth degree.

MrsGrumps very kindly provided a perfect example of what I mean by a grammar Nazi. Her use of grammar is nothing more than a tool to demean her colleagues and assert her superiority. The fact that she doesn't do this to her boss speaks volumes.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Why do you think that about novels or classics?

And how can you possibly predict that?

I remember when the Harry Potter books came out, people had been saying how hard it was to get children reading, declining standards, no-one cares about literature any more, etc. etc. ... and then children took to these books, and they went from Harry Potter to other books. I know some out-of-print books actually came back into print (and haven't gone out again yet), because of that effect.

I suspect such books come along quite regularly, too.

[BarbJohnson5]

I agree with those who said its the dumbing down of people in today's society. Its like no one can be bothered to grammatically check sentences and spellings before hitting the send button. Another thing that i've noticed especially with American's is the use of 'rather' instead of whether. e.g. 'its wrong rather you agree or not' instead of whether'. I've never understood that for a second. Sadly, too much time spent shortening words and this culture of 'what's in' type of language cannot be beneficial in the long run as people are also struggling to write CV's, covering letters as well as speak at a competent, professional level when job hunting and over the phone etc...It starts with the streets and the kids are only too happy to come home speaking a certain way, because they think it makes them cool. I have to get in my teens faces sometimes when they try that rubbish at home. I won't have it for a second.