To ask for one, simple, summary about all the angry SAHM threads.

[catinboots]

Pleaseeee??

I haven't read them all - but there seem to be lots of SAHMs on here today, moaning that they won't eat help with child are costs.

Eh?

Have I missed some key piece of information? Have a got it wrong?

Surely the whole point of being a SAHP is so that you don't need childcare?..

[anklebitersmum]

Bytheway1 We're all supposed to be defined by our wage packet. The fact that that doesn't suit everyone's way of life or their values is neither here nor there.

[SofaKing]

Its accomplished its purpose though, we are arguing among ourselves when the one irrefutable fact is that this is wooden dollars. The welfare bill is being cut, so if you are in receipt of any benefit you will now be poorer, regardless of your family structure.

I'm a sahm but not running out to get a job yet as I'm sure these cuts aren't close To finished, and next time childcare subsidies could be the target.

[FasterStronger]

We're all supposed to be defined by our wage packet

if you want to opt out of earning and paying tax, you also need to accept you are also opting out of the benefits of being a tax payer.

after all, if money is not important to you, you cannot be that bothered if you don't get given it.

[fedupofnamechanging]

I'd settle for 'society' not making negative value judgements about me, based on what I have chosen to do wrt my own family. I am not lazy or giving my dc a bad example in life. In fact, I am setting them a good example because I am doing something which the majority doesn't consider to be important and I am doing it anyway because I think it's valuable. My dc will grow up to learn that following their own path, is important. Whatever that path may be.

As for NI credits - I view these as being paid for by my dh and they are only a benefit if there's a pension available for me to claim at some distant point in the future. As things stand, I may be dead before I'm eligible to receive it!

[Dahlen]

While I accept the argument that everything has to be paid for, I think it very sad that people are defined in terms of earning capacity.

So much of what defines our greatest attributes as a species are valueless in terms of money or worth/paid very little - blitz spirit during the war, the many and vital volunteer roles undertaken by people throughout the country (many of whom are SAHMs), random acts of kindness, care work.

I would rather see an ethical form of capitalism, where it is recognised that some things of great value need to be paid for even though they do not generate their own income.

[fedupofnamechanging]

Agree that this is about divide and rule. In removing a universal benefit, it makes the higher earners feel disenfranchised from valuing the idea of a welfare state, because they perceive they are paying lots and not getting much back. In turn, this makes it easier for the govt to then remove benefits from people who actually need them in order to survive, because they have already successfully pitted us against each other so there is no opposition from as a whole cohesive unit when the govt chip away at truly essential payments.

[mam29]

I find it so sad.

How the 2opposite camps are against each other,

I have been fulltime working mum putting eldest in nursery at 11months and sahm now to 3kids only 1 school age.
I also do volunteering work.

All each side wants is bit of fairness and for each side to try be objective and see the others point of veiw.

Although I miss work I can see benefits its had for my kids.

I dont asked to be paid.
thankfully keep child benefits just.
bit miffed about new childcare vouchers as feel its on fair on so many groups not just sahm.

a sahm still pays tax

vat when they purchase stuff
vat on bills
council tax
road tax.

I think what most sahm /dads mums want is not to be labelled as lazy and for people to apprceiate families are complex everyones different , not everyone has family to fall back on.

Threes normally a reason behind the choice to go back or stay at home,some people in each group dont have a choice as we ignoring

childcare most expensive in europe.

childcares patchy depending where you live

rising living costs/inflation.

we as uk pay high rates of tax

[anklebitersmum]

Faster as a family we pay tax. We get nothing barr CB and as I've said before I don't want anything.

I just object to being snided at by overpaid supercillious numpties who have no idea about 'real' civvie life, never mind forces family life.

[FasterStronger]

ankle forces family life

well you have won me there. I don't think forces families are treated well.

[LinusVanPelt]

"You are not raising your children during this time. They are obviously receiving childcare and not being raised during these times. providers are only given permission to care, when you raise your children you are totally responsible for all their needs."

By your logic, morethanpotatoprints, we are only raising our children during the times when we are interacting in person with them, is that right?

So in the morning, in the evening, and on the weekends I am raising dd, but then during the hours when I'm in the office I'm not.

And if on a Saturday I pop out to the shop and leave her at home with her dad, I guess I'm not raising her anymore for that hour? But he is. I never realised there was so much at stake! Am i giving up my role in my child's life every time I lose the coin toss on who has to go for milk and bread?!

I suppose we both cease to raise her, effectively leaving her parentless, for a couple of hours on the odd occasion that we leave her with a sitter to go out for an anniversary meal or something...

Or is it only time spent working that counts against a parent when it comes to your assessment of whether she's "raising" her own child? Do you really think that "raising" a child means the same thing as "minding" one?

This is what raising our child means to me and dh: providing her with security and making a home for her, providing opportunities for activities, travel, and education, setting an example for her, planning for her future, making the decisions on everything from food, activities, clothing, entertainment, bedtime, which childcare to use, which school to attend, yes or no to this or that sleepover, making sure she gets to the doctor when she needs to, advocating for her always, making sure she brushes her teeth, eats her veggies, gets some exercise, learns to tie her shoelaces, sitting up with her all night when she's sick, teaching her new skills, fretting and worrying about her constantly, keeping an eye on areas where she needs support, and providing that when we're with her and making damn sure the childminder (or, in a year or so, the teacher) is providing it when we're not, being the disciplinarian even when we don't want to be, because it will help her learn how to get along in the world, planning her birthday parties and ways to make the holidays special, teaching her our values, passing on family traditions and beliefs, making sure she knows that she is the most important thing in our world and always will be, and that EVERY decision we make has at its heart our best judgment of what's in her best interest now, and far into her future.

And a million other things that I do without thinking about it because I am her mother. Even when the childminder is giving dd lunch, fingerpainting with her, or bandaging her scraped knee, she is well aware that she isn't "raising" dd (which is why she runs everything past us, dd's parents). We are the ones who decide what dd is going to eat, we're the ones she proudly hands her fingerpaint creations to so that they can be hung on the fridge, and we're the ones with the magic kisses to make her scrape feel all better.

Do you really think that working mothers don't do those things? Or are you just going out of your way to be insulting?

[janey68]

Linusvanpelt- absolutely 100% agree

Fwiw I think anyone ignorant enough to post that WOHP arent raising their children must have their own issues, it's such a ridiculous non argument.

[FasterStronger]

morethan when you raise your children you are totally responsible for all their needs.

you rely on benefits paid for by others, so you are not totally responsible for your DCs, so taxpayers are raising your children....

oh the irony

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Linusvanpelt, well said but you missed the fact that apparently you only need to do housework and your husband can only work if you sty home

Everyone with a child is a parent, nobody should be validated or appreciated because they chose to have a child. Their choice, their responsibility.

The tax thing about SAHM's paying tax is technically wrong though, if you have no income you dont pay tax. Any tax added via VAT etc is either paid for by the state or another adults wages unless you are living off savings actually earned previously.

[x2boys]

I,M a working mum [full time would love to go part time but i,m the main earner so just cant afford it]. I resent the fact people see me as not raising my own kids fwiw my dh and i work opposite shifts i,m a nurse he works in a warehouse my children hasve never been in childcare in their lives. [although of course people who need to use childcare are also raising their own kids my sister for one]its not geat working opposite shifts but you do what you have to do we deceided to have children its our responsibility to provide for them ?

[HappyMummyOfOne]

"morethan when you raise your children you are totally responsible for all their needs.

you rely on benefits paid for by others, so you are not totally responsible for your DCs, so taxpayers are raising your children....

oh the irony"

Not to mention her DH is not happy his taxes go towards other peoples childcare but yet is happy to let other people pay their CB, WTC and CTC! Given WTC is capped on very low salaries is safe to assume that the income tax paid is less than the benefits each month.

[morethanpotatoprints]

How do I rely on benefits. I only get cb like many others. My dh has the tax credits because he is entitled to them. I am a sahm and apparently not entitled to anything

In answer to the question about raising children, I do think that childcare is a different role to a parent who is raising their children.
I also hear parents talking about childcare that they provide themselves. It may be semantics to some but I prefer to raise my dc and not provide childcare myself, nor pay for others to provide it. We all do things differentely, can't see how that is insulting anyone.

[Morebiscuitsplease]

But childcare is available, nursery grant kicks in at 3 years, that is something.

[FasterStronger]

more than - its just semantics - you say 'entitled to tax credits' I say 'rely on benefits' (i.e. other people working)

[allnewtaketwo]

No morethan, your household receives tax credits, which are benefits

[wrongsideoftheroad]

PARP!

[anotheryearolder]

Thats a great post Linus

I have not used any form of childcare myself as DH and I shared care and WOH 50/50 - shifts enabled us to do this.


Parents/ parental figure are/is always the main influence in a childs life - not always in a positive way sadly.
Its insulting to infer that because someone is a teacher,shop assistant,chef,nurse,doctor,engineer or any other job you can think of they are bad parents and I agree with whoever up thread said that those who think this have a few issues of their own.
Its interesting that the "Not raising their own" is never applied to men just women.
If you want to SAH or WOH go for it - have the confidence to do it with out needing to make ridiculous remarks about other parents to boost your own ego.

[FutTheShuckUp]

jumps up and down I work full time and have kids- can I have a medal for just being so fucking awesome? I may not raise my kids but I do contribute financially to enable smuggy mcsmuggersons to do so!

[janey68]

If its just semantics morethan, then let's just say we all raise our children, but within the parameters of that, our children all have caring and nurturing relationships outside the immediate family too. There- that should cover all bases- WOHP and SAHP are incorporated in that statement

[fedupofnamechanging]

Just to add that as a sham I do pay tax. I choose to buy shit loads of things that dh would never choose to buy, and am therefore contributing to the tax coffers

[fedupofnamechanging]

ha ha sham is probably about right on some people's estimations. Should have said sahm