Daughter age 9 still wets/soils her knickers and is going to a residential trip in June

[bengal38]

My daughter is 9 years old and since she was 4 years old has been wetting and soiling her knickers. Have taken her to the Drs recently (and in the past a few times) and there is no problem.

She says she can't be bothered to go toilet. When she has friend round/goes to a friend she will go toilet for a wee but not for a poo which results in the soiled underwear.

She is going away in June for a 2 night trip to a residential trip and I am worried she will be wetting/soiling her underwear. I have spoken to her about this and she tells me not to worry. Can't mention to the teachers either as it is really embarrassing.

Anyone have any ideas please?

I would....

work between now and June on adressing issue (its v common)

and see where you are at by end May, and if not better have a straight conversaton with her, on whether she really thinks she will be OK?

Just a thought. Is she scared to go to the toilet?

It may seem weird but it's a possibility I remember a period of being terrified after the door jammed and I had to wait for a grown up to come and "rescue" me, when I was about 6.

It would explain why she'd rather soil herself than go to the loo.

She says she can't be bothered to go toilet

If this is really the case I would be telling her that she isn't going on the residential trip.

just yellow discharge would be an infection of some sort. Or it could be wee. Maybe talk to her again and suggest GP ?

Would explain a smell too come to think of it.

I used to have this problem OP, and still do occasionally. It was down to my fibromyalgia giving me very poor bladder and bowel control. I wasn't diagnosed until I was well into my 20s. Its very doubtful a girl your daughters age is doing this out of laziness, and doctors make stupid mistakes all the time so I would strongly advise getting a second opinion. Does your daughter have frequent lethargic spells, or a 'spacey' nature?

I really feel for your little girl, I tried to put a brave face on it but its a horrible thing to experience. There's a whole set of holiday photos of me trying to smile but grimacing instead because I'd had an accident and was trying desperately not to let on.

bengal if she says she can't be bothered then I wouldn't send her either.
I was a long term night bedwetter (not during the day though and not soiling)
My DC were late to be dry (and I was very patient and understanding. Maybe they'd have been a bit quicker if I bawled them out)

When they went to bed without a pee (and I'd know because they were in too quickly) then that was the only time I got annoyed.If they couldn't be bothered then I would make them strip and remake their beds by themselves.
2 minutes of their time should not result in 20 minutes of my time being wasted.

Ask her to put herself in this situation.
She wakes up on the residential. 3 other schoolmates in the room. And her bed is saturated with wee.

What does she do now. Ask her what her next move would be
Because children do know. And they will tease.

And yes, she needs to see someone. Get a referral to the Eneuresis clinic.
ASAP.

Right - my LO says "I can't be bothered" or"didn't want to" go to the toilet, but it stems from phobia, the pain associated with constipation etc. Usually if the child is wetting & soiling regularly, it's not use to laziness but being distracted or not having more than 20secs warning to go. The way you react will affect how your child goes to the loo. Be calm, talk positively and make it clear that they can talk to you as you are there to help.

And please visit Eric and get your daughter referred to a paediatrician

please set up a meeting with her teacher. They need to know about this or they will end uo being the lastto find out after the rest of the kids on the trip. i have worked in outdoor ed for over fifteen years and there are many ways of dealing with the situation. But teachers and staff can only helpo if we know. And unfortunatly for her if she embarrased by the teacher knowing then if it really is just because she can't be bothered, she has kinda bought it on herself. Who knows this may be just the thing to turn this around.
Having teacher check on her may just be the push she needs to become bothered.

I can't believe this thread is here. I have just been to the Drs with my 9 yr old DD. She has poo and wee accidents too. After she toilet trained, we had lots of issues with wet knickers, stinky wee and a persistent 'holding on' strategy that she herself developed. If she needed to go, rather than heading straight to the toilet, she would go and sit in a corner and concentrate like mad to the make the feeling (the need to wee/poo) go away, and then went back to what ever she was doing. My son was regularly calling to me, 'Mum, DD's making that face again'.

I've realised that over the years, rather than deal with it effectively, I've just had a huge supply of knickers.........can't believe I've been so useless.

Anyway...... it all came to a climax when I was pulling the washing out of the machine last week and two balls of poos rolled out with the washing. The entire wash stank of poo......

So, she and I had a huge talk (we've talked about it ad nauseum in the past). We covered her age, bullying/teasing, whether she was in pain with pooing etc. she admitted that she still did the 'holding on' thing, and rarely went when she first needed to...so the accidents were when she just couldn't hold on any longer and a bit of wee/poo leaked out before she could get to the loo.

At the GP's, as soon as I sat down, I knew he'd be useless.....and he was. I basically told him everything, and his only concern was of constipation (which is not an issue). Offered the idea of her having a regular time to poo. We have a chart on the wall, on which she marks off glasses of water drank, the time of day she does a poo, and a score where 1 = held on every time, 2 = held on 50/50 and 3= went when needed to all the time.

Do I need a paediatric appointment?.......from the above comments, I think I do.

My main concern is that her normal bladder/bowel feedback mechanisms aren't working properly due to years of not listening to them.

Sorry......this is really long.

KTP

Yes, please get a referral

And OP, again please do not assume anything about what is going on, do not threaten her with consequences, until you know what is going on. The problem needs pull assessment.

Full

I seriously seriously doubt she really isn't bothered. She may have adopted this attitude as a way of denying it is a problem. Just as some children who have difficulty with schoolwork give up or act out.

What Jamie said. If a child of mine was soiling at 9 and claiming they couldn't be bothered, I would assume that was bravado and that they were very bothered indeed.

may I also suggest you consider Tena lady pads or liners for her? These could be a short term solution whilst this gets addressed. Plus of course some wipes and spare knickers

This is better than having her "stuck" with soiled or wet pants and facing humiliation

I have mild incontinence after my 10lb baby and they are a lifesaver

I just hate the thought of her suffering when there is a soluton (yes short term) that you can buy to alleive embarassment at school

I think you have been given some excellent advice about further medical treatment and strategies etc. So I'm not going to comment on those.

I just want to let you have the perspective of someone organising such a trip.

I am a brownie leader. We have taken a young girl away several times (between age of 8ish and 10ish). She is was still bedwetting (known physcological issues which were being addressed).
The parent discussed this and her needs with a nominated member of staff each time. She wore pull ups or similar at night and our awareness of this helped the girl to be discreet. She was given early access to the toilet in the morning so she could deal with her needs in privacy. We didn't actually need to intervene at all. Her mother had discussed with us what facilities would and qould be available. This meant the mother could discuss with her daughter how she would deal with her needs. As far as we are aware none of the other girls were aware of her additional needs, and that could only be acheived effectively by her parents having an open and honest dialogue with the supervising adults and her daughter.

What I'm trying to say is that you must talk to the teachers. They will work with you to develop a strategy to facilitate this trip. They will be sensitive about it.

The OP stated a thread about the same thing last July.

Just chipping with agreement that this should be taken seriously and checked out but with a hand-holding rather than threatening approach.

Apologies if I have missed anything but is the soiling wetting happening only at school or friends houses? Does she do the same at home?

Around the same age I had similar issues and frequently came home from school with dirty knickers. Being told I was naughty and disgusting by my parents did not help the situation. The truth was that I was terrified to go to the loo at school; I don't know if it still happens but at my primary school it was jolly good fun for older girls to stand on the toilet seat and look over the top of the cubicle into the next cubicle so they could laugh at girls having a wee . Unfortunately I got caught mid-poo , having been unaware of the apparent rules that (a) girls don't do poos and (b) if they do, it is always at home and never in public which is wrong and disgusting. These girls started squealing in both mirth and disgust and then starting persuading others to come and have a look at me while I sat in tears, humiliated and just unable to actually stop pooing while they watched. I was bullied for years after that and soon realised that the screams of laughter if anyone saw me heading for the toilet were something I could avoid if I just pretended never to have to go. Even with friends, I was so sure they would turn on me that I couldn't bring myself to admit to needing the toilet in front of them and yes, accidents did happen at times.

Please try to talk to your daughter in a non-judgemental way and find out if there is anything behind the bravado of "I can't be bothered". Speak to the teacher also - they will be able to help and spare your daughter's embarrassment.

I think your GP may be doing your DD a disservice

Quite! Good grief, if a 9 year old is soiling and wetting there is a good reason for it and IF it is 'laziness' then the reason behind the laziness needs to be investigated.

November

this reminds me of my school trip when they pretended they had taken photos of me in the showers (they had not) cunts!

god being a kid is shit sometimes

KTP - You definitely need a pedeatric appointment for your daughter. You probably should have brought her years ago. I really can't understand why you didnt. There could have been some physical problem that made her afraid to use the toilet for fear of it hurting and it sounds like this has developed into phscological issues too.

Do you know for sure that no one is making fun of her at school? I remember being at primary school and playing around with a girl in my class. We were sat on the floor and kicking out at each other (this was playing not fighting). I caught a glimpse of her knickers and saw that they were filthy (as in soiled). I didn't tell anyone else as I was too embarrassed myself but I avoided her after that and wouldnt play with her. I'd hate to think of the same thing happening to your dd.

GP's and school nurses are in my opinion all absolutely useless in dealing with this issue. I know several people who have ten year olds who still wet the bed regularly boys and girls. My daughter was wetting and soiling at school until she was seven or eight. Referring to the child as lazy, or making them feel bad about it in anyway is completely counter productive. My daughters Reception/Year 1 teacher was an absolute witch about it and made me feel as though it was all my fault. I ended up talking to the head and she helped me. I finally after months and months of pushing got an appointment with paediatrician. My DD was displaying signs of epilepsy and an EEG confirmed this. A further appointment with a paediatric consultant; who told me that the EEG was a "red herring" and that my DD did not have epilepsy.

She is now 10 and the form of epilepsy she had, benign focal, she has largely grown out of and the wetting and soiling stopped and my feeling was they were linked. There was not treatment. She grew out of it. Its very hard for people to understand unless you have had a child like that there is not a straightforward answer. You could go to ten different sources of help and they will all give a different answer. Just try and give her strategies to cope, keep going back to the GP and I am fairly certain at some point she will grow out of it. Try not to worry, it is not uncommon. But send her on the trip. She should not be punished for this as it will just make it worse. The teachers will have seen this a million times and will help her out if you let the school know.

KTP Just to second the others and ask for a referral as soon as possible. My eldest has had poo issues since he was potty trained and it's only in the last year or so that he goes when he wants / needs to and doesn't 'hide' like your DD, hoping that the feeling would go away. He used to do this and consequently his bowel got used to it and would end up going for a poo only every 3-5 days.

Unfortunately a few years of this means that his bowel has been stretched and so he still gets a tiny bit of leakage but only every few weeks or so. I'm hoping praying! that we're nearly at the end of it all. 5 years of poo problems have really taken their toll

Sorry but I imagine your DD will continue to have problems with soiled pants and leakage for quite some time. I was told that a long time of witholding and denying you need a poo can mean that it takes a couple of years for the bowel to get back to normal.

NotADragon

I see.