Daughter age 9 still wets/soils her knickers and is going to a residential trip in June

[bengal38]

My daughter is 9 years old and since she was 4 years old has been wetting and soiling her knickers. Have taken her to the Drs recently (and in the past a few times) and there is no problem.

She says she can't be bothered to go toilet. When she has friend round/goes to a friend she will go toilet for a wee but not for a poo which results in the soiled underwear.

She is going away in June for a 2 night trip to a residential trip and I am worried she will be wetting/soiling her underwear. I have spoken to her about this and she tells me not to worry. Can't mention to the teachers either as it is really embarrassing.

Anyone have any ideas please?

[SirBoobAlot]

I think you need to be pushing for more medical help, a psych assessment and more detailed physical exam. At 9, there is no way she is just lazy.

And you do need to speak to the school, I can't believe you haven't so far.

[hmmmhmmm]

ds had this age 8 and 9
resolved itself without intervention thank god
wouldn't have sent him on residential trip however. nightmare going on days out just with us!

[amck5700]

my guess would be that she wont do it when she is away - My 12 year old still wets himself from time to time at home simply because he doesn't want to come of the computer/skype to go to the toilet. He doesn't do it at school or during the night or if he is out. Drives me demented, sheer laziness/absorbtion.

[Goldmandra]

You need to ask for a meeting. Don't talk off the cuff at the beginning or end of school.

Just say that they may not be aware but DD has some continence issues with which she might need some support during the trip. Say that it is related to bowel and bladder control and she may need some reminders to clean herself up. explain how you support her at home and ask them to let you know what arrangements they can put in place to help her on the trip.

You need to decide whether she should go on the trip. If you want her to go the school should be prepared to make reasonable adjustments to allow her to attend while keeping her dignity and privacy protected.

In the meantime go and see your GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician and the continence nurse at least. Don't take no for an answer or she'll still be soiling when she's a teenager and that will be even more embarrassing for her.

[cory]

Everything Goldmandra said. The school has a duty to make reasonable adjustments to support any additional need, but they can't do that unless they are told.

Until your dd has been investigated by a specialist (whether on incontinence/bowels or a psychologist) you can't know whether it is a problem that will resolve itself. My dd needed medication for several years (but now has no issues). It would be horrible if you tried to cure it by making her frightened of being bullied and it then turned out to be a physical problem.

[Lancelottie]

I have a DS whose school trip triggered a lasting bout of wetting and soiling. There wasn't anything we could have done to prepare for it, and as a result of his acute embarrassment none of the staff found out -- but all the kids did. Some of them were merciless.

Don't subject your daughter to that when you have time before June to sort it out

[MyDarlingClementine]

GPS are " general practitioners" they are first line defense and seem to know a little about a lot and only sometimes something else in depth.

I used to have occasional accidents at a friends house at sleep overs - because I felt alot of anxeity at her house, I really really liked my friend and wanted to go but the general atmos was alot more rigid than my own house. I only ever did it at her house and I would never have disclosed at that age why I thought it was.

As her mother as others say please please take her back to GP, see another doctor, say its not good enough etc....its also not something i would wanting to be made a huge issue of infront of the child either - I would perhaps even just phone gp and ask for referal or - say if we visit I dont want issue made of it - until you can see someone who is more specialised in this field and knows how to approach it with your DD in a sensitive manner.

I was extremly depressed and anxious when I was 9, I carried the weight of the world on my shoulders and I know that all the adults round me had absoluty no idea of the depths of my worries and fears.

[cory]

Otoh, unlike Lancelottie's case, we were forewarned and staff prepared and so ready to deal swiftly with any teasing that might have occurred. It is not a given that children will bully- it will depend on how differences are generally treated in that school and how well the children have been taught about tolerance.

[Viviennemary]

I think it would be very unfair to her and the school to send her on the trip without telling the teachers about it. If it's just laziness would it help to tell her she can't go on the trip until this stops.

[MortifiedAdams]

A nine year old does not choose to have poppy knickers over going to the loo.no matter how lazy. She obviously has issues over toilet visits and these need to be addressed and I certainly wouldnt be sending her on a resi until they are resolved.

[HollaAtMeBaby]

how is this happening at DD's friends' houses without them being aware of it?

Given that the trip is not for 3 months and this seems not to have caused issues for your DD at school for the last couple of years I would be going back to the GP before you talk to the teachers into it. You really need to push for more investigation - if the cause of this isn't physical then it must be psychological and the GP should have offered you a referral to that type of support.

I may be wrong but once you have admitted this won't DD need some sort of statement to be allowed on the trip? I cannot imagine mainstream primary teachers merrily agreeing to clean up after a NT 9yo who soils herself because she just can't be bothered to go to the toilet". Also think that you presenting this to the school as a fait accompli with no plan in place for helping your DD to stop soiling could raise questions for them - it's great that you are asking here for advice but this is such a serious issue and you should be seen to be taking action when you bring it to school's attention. How soon can you take her back to the surgery?

[cory]

When dd was due on her residential trip, one thing that happened was that her paed referred her to an incontinence nurse who gave her pads but also talked through the whole trip with her and how she could deal with any situations on it. E.g. how she would use her pads without anyone noticing, how to dispose of them etc. This gave dd the confidence that she could handle her situation and made her less embarrassed, because the nurse was so matter of fact.

[DewDr0p]

OP please do look at that link to the ERIC website, it really gives fantastic advice, can't recommend it highly enough.

My ds had continence issues (at 5-6 yo) and we were referred to a paediatrician - he had an overactive bladder. I disagree with your GP, I am afraid. There is probably an issue and it can almost certainly be treated.

And please talk to the school. If they know to keep an eye they can do so very discreetly. (What normally happens at school? Surely she must have had accidents there before?)

Btw it was a bit of a long slog sorting out ds's issues but he is brilliant now.

[newcastle34]

I am so glad I have seen this thread. My 7 year old is having poo soiling issues and sometimes wees. Feel like worst mum ever. Been to gp and taken advice from school nurse etc.
Going to push for a referral.

[Tolly81]

As a dr this thread is really frustrating. For anyone who has a child with wetting/soiling issues over the age of 5, you need to see a paediatrician. GPs are simply not equipped nor do they understand complex issues like this - there are even paediatricians who specialise in this area for goodness sake! I'm sorry you've been fobbed off. Please remember that many GPs have done no postgraduate training in paediatrics. In an area like this, they really don't know what they are talking about. As many have already mentioned, continence issues in older children are most often (but not always) related to problems with constipation which can cause faecal impaction, "overflow" incontinence and diarrhoea (where softer poo leaks around large blockages of firm poo). Faecal impaction and constipation are painful, and can cause anal fissures which are excruciating and not visible to the naked eye. Constipation almost always causes difficulties with urinary continence in children. Over time, the problems become deep-rooted and have both a physical and psychological basis. There will be no quick fixes - issues like these take some time to sort out but the sooner you get a management plan, the better. Go back to the GP and insist on a referral to a paediatrician. All the better if there is one that runs a specialist incontinence clinic. You may be able to find this out by asking the health visitors or searching on the website for your nearest hospitall with paediatric services. Do not be fobbed off. Make sure the referral is sent immediately (you could ask the GP receptionists and even phone the next day and say that there is an important referral and you wanted to check it had been sent). As it is you will have to wait up to 8 weeks for an appt. No child of this age soils purely out of laziness - people just don't do this. Otherwise there'd be a hell of a lot of teenagers (and adults come to that) who started pooing themselves!
In the meantime I would go on the Eric website and put some interim measures in place. Of course you will have to tell the school. They have to treat everything in confidence. I suggest you say DD is having this issue. She will therefore need extra changes of underwear. We are trying this (maybe the watch or whatever) to help at the moment but we are waiting for a paediatric appointment about it and I will update you with the plan after that.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

OP

please do not threaten your DD with not going on the trip.

Seek help

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

And your embarrassment about not mentioning to the school, whilst understandable, does not help anyone. Huge amount of denial from her and from you.

[blameitonthecaffeine]

I also doubt it could be laziness.

My 9 year old was diagnosed with OCD last year which, for her, is largely about germ worries. She was/is terrified of toilets outside of the home. For the whole of Y3 we had awful problems with her wetting herself at school and out in public. She would hold it and hold it until she could hardly walk and then have really big, embarrassing 'accidents'. Obviously she was getting very upset and therefore most of the time she was able to bring herself to get to a toilet in time but not on bad days. She was waiting to the point of fully wetting at least once a week and coming home with damp or very wet pants every day.

Since diagnosis she's had a lot of counselling and the school and her extra curricular activites have been wonderful in talking to her and working with her so that there is one toilet in each building that she feels ok about. She still struggles and has wet herself 7 or 8 times since starting Y4 but it's so so much better and I feel more positive that she can get over it.

Seriously, I would consider counselling, your daughter has to be going through something. Having an accident in public is so embarrassing for a child that age that I just can't believe she doesn't care. Especially if it's soiling that is more of an issue for her!

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

Blameit

Yes, there are several possible reasons for the problem, physical, psychological, and probably a combination.

It makes me sad to think that this hasn't be dealt with, and that an assumption of laziness has been made. Even saying you child is lazy, in itself, is too simplistic an explanation for many things, IMO.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

your child.


OP

Sorry, i sound judgmental. You obviously trusted your GPs opinion. i know soiling, in particular is an embarrassing and emotive issue, but please follow the advice on here.

[MerryCouthyMows]

Smartiepants79 - some teachers really DON'T notice. You would - because you are a good teacher. Not all are.

(I have a 9yo DS2 who suffers from encoparesis)

[IloveJudgeJudy]

DS2 had pooing problems past 5. I took him to the GP and asked for a second opinion. It was no bother for the GP, but a great help for DS1. It was sorted over a matter of a few months, with the help of Movicol.

Please, OP, go back and ask for a second opinion. You owe this to your DD. She says she's not bothered as she doesn't know how else to word it to you.

Please also mention it to your DD's teachers. They need to know so that can minimise the impact for her.

I really do hope you can get this sorted, for everyone's sake. Don't leave it.

[justchuggingalong]

I have nc for this.

My 9yo stepdaughter also has bathroom issues; it doesn't seem like she uses toilet paper, or at least not properly. My DH had a quiet word with her; she got extremely upset, denied it until he showed her the knickers that made us realize there was a problem, and for a few days I think tried extra hard bathroom-wise.

Unfortunately it's happening again. From the look of it, she isn't drying herself after a wee, or has weed herself by accident.

But, is it at all possible that this might be some kind of pre-puberty discharge, rather than urine? I feel awkward about the whole thing as I'm not her mother; my DH is extremely sensitive with her and I'm sure will handle it well, but only if he's correct about what's going on. Her mother unfortunately can't be relied on for help.

any ideas?

[Somebodysomewhere]

Just how can you not tell if it is discharge or wee ? Do you think she might have thrush or anything like that ?

[justchuggingalong]

I'm fairly certain it's wee; it's yellow and smells quite strongly, but isn't a urine smell per se. I can't remember having any sort of discharge when I was 9, but I guess I'm very concerned DH will wrongly approach it as an incontinence/improper cleaning issue, rather than a "growing up/changing bodies" issue.

Excuse my awkwardness - I love my SD to bits but feel very unsure of my place in handling this. It feels wrong to even know about the state of her knickers, in a way, like it isn't any of my business.