to think it's the parents responsibility to pay for childcare if they want to work?

[StandardNetworkCharge]

My DB and SIL have a little boy who has just turned 1. She gave up work more or less when she found out she was pregnant (by her own admission she exaggerated her symptoms to get herself signed off for various reasons right the way through pregnancy).

In the run up to Christmas my DB lost his job, he got a new one quite quickly but on less money and with a longer commute. SIL was quickly fed up having to economise so she decided to get a job. She found temporary work with irregular shifts, her reasoning being that Db would look after DN when she was working. But very often DB isn't home in time to look after DN or she wanted to take extra shifts whilst he was working. As things were tight for them (and it was the run up to Christmas) family and friends have been stepping in and doing all their childcare to help them out.

SIL is badly organised though and will often leave it until the last minute to sort out childcare and then make begging calls/text/posts on fb. DH and I have helped them out, often being told it would be for an hour or so but ending up with DN for an entire evening, interferring with our plans. On the basis that it was a temporary situation I have tried to temper my annoyance.

However, her work have now offered her a fixed contract. Rather than getting organised and paying out for childcare when it is needed. She is continuing to expect it free from all and sundry and getting shirty with us when we have said no.

As I don't have any children of my own yet I am prepared to admit maybe AIBU to be annoyed at her but I just feel that if she wants to work to earn money for luxuries then she should be factoring childcare costs into that and not expecting everyone to continuously "help them out" at the last minute.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

If it's SIL tagging you on FB, I can see why you are blaming her.

I'm guessing they are realising that getting a job to pay for extras doesn't really help short term finances because if childcare costs - though it does increase security if DBro loses his job. This is a fact they need to get their heads rOund, like many parents.

[janey68]

Mrskeithrichards- I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across like that, but your post kind of implies that families who don't act as free childcarers aren't 'helping'eachother out. I don't think anything could be further from the truth. I think the vast majority of grandparents want to have a loving relationship with their grand children, and most parents want that for their children. It doesn't all have to be bound up with getting something for nothing.

[StandardNetworkCharge]

MrsKeithRichards you seem to be saying AIBU to not want to do it?

I have been helping them out, ad hoc since the end of October, it's now February, rather than the job being a temporary measure it's now going to carry on indefinitely.

We don't have children (we are trying and have been for awhile now) so it's not a reciprocal arrangement. Perhaps, if I'm lucky it will be in the future.

I don't mind helping out at all, occasionally in a difficult situation or indeed regularly for a fixed period, but this is at least once week, sometimes with only a couple of hours notice.

I feel pressured to explain why I don't want to do childcare when sometimes it is just that I want to do what I want to do (and can do because I don't have children of my own) IYSWIM.

As an Aunt should I be doing ad hoc childcare without question?

Am I really being unreasonable? Genuinely asking as this seems to be implied in your comments.

[clam]

Our family helps each other out all the time. But on an ad hoc basis, there's no expectation that it will be done. And everyone's always very appreciative and grateful.
One of the reasons we opted for "official" childcare for our two, years ago now, was so we didn't put upon MIL all the time. And we then felt better about asking her for the odd evening/cover for drs and hospital appointments and so on here and there.

[MrsKeithRichards]

Did you miss the part where I said you don't want to help, that's fine, just say no - several times?

I thought it was around Christmas time, hence me making allowances for the disorganisation seeing as it's only been a few weeks really.

YANBU for not wanting to help, I'm sure I said that.

[MrsKeithRichards]

What I meant to add was life is too short to get pissed of on behalf of other people, their arrangments are haphazzard, they need to get better organised.

I'm still wondering why your DB can't do the bits he said he could when she first started though? Is it a case of her meant to be starting work when he's home? It sounds like that was the plan and it's not working for some reason.

[AThingInYourLife]

" tagging me on FB statuses (so everyone sees) that say "Reallllllyyyyy want to be able to work on Friday but need someone to look after DN... Standard?""

Silly fucking bitch to do that.

Have a word with your brother and tell him to sort out his childcare arrangements and tell his wife to get some manners.

That is appalling.

In my family we help each other out.

We don't use each other.

[clam]

Somehow, mrskeithrichards the way you say "not wanting to help" comes across as the OP being negative or unpleasant here. Helping out is one thing, and it sounds as if she has done plenty of that over the months. But what's happening now is a whole new ballgame.

[StandardNetworkCharge]

Ok, so IANBU to say no, I just need to toughen up.

When she took the job it was because it was "evenings and weekends" so, theoretically, DB can cover the childcare as he works office hours.

However, evenings and weekends isn't standardised so sometimes SIL starts at 5pm, sometimes 6pm, sometimes 8pm. Depending on the shifts they offer her. Due to his job being a long commute DB doesn't get in til around 6.30pm/7pm most nights but traffic and trains + the nature of his job impact on this and so it's highly variable.

SIL will take a shift which starts at 6pm but obviously DN needs childcare from 5.30pm as she has to get to work and then, in theory, DB will pick up at 7pm but can be in traffic or stuck in office or on a train until 8.30pm so "it's only for an hour" is actually 3hrs!

She has told me that she takes all the shifts they offer her as she wants the money. She will then sort out childcare out after agreeing to work. There is then added pressure from her that she "doesn't want to let work down" by having to tell them she can't do it after she has said yes.

[LessMissAbs]

"if they want to work"??

Sounds like a hard working family using other family members for childcare, often difficult to arrange. Quite possibly struggling for money.

Why should a woman be judged for "wanting to buy nice things for herself?" Aside from the fact her DH might also want to buy nice things for himself out of joint family finances, its hardly a sin!

And I believe the state should pay for childcare, because it should encourage the population to be hard working and motivated to go out to work. I'd rather my taxes were used for that than some other more dubious uses.

[gobbledegook1]

Im gonna go against the grain here and say YAB a bit U.

Childcare is very expensive and if by the time she has payed out her childcare expenses she will be no better off then it kind of defeats the point of going back to work.

Also if her shifts are irregular then regular childcare can be hard to get unless she pays for full days every weekday to cover all bases, which if she only works part time will probably cost more than she's actually earning.

What about weekends? Finding childcare for a weekend could be very difficult.

What I earn doesn't even cover my rent and by the time I have used my child benefit and tax credits to feed us and cover the bills there is absolutely nothing left, there is no way on this planet I could afford to put my son into payed childcare whilst I went to work even with the 50% the government might help with, I rely on my family to have my son for me but whats the betting if I gave up work because my family wouldn't do it you would all sit around moaning about me for sponging off the government.

[lollilou]

With shift patterns like that what kind of childcare could she pay for?

[MrsKeithRichards]

You could say that her 'not wanting to let them down' has paid off as she's been offered a permanent position.

She does need to sort out childcare before accepting these extra shifts now though, that's true.

It sounds chaotic and if it's only been the case since Christmas then that's why I'd be willing to cut them some slack and let them both settle into new roles.

So in theory she wasn't expecting to have to use any childcare.

Can DB not make sure he's home on time? It's his responsibility too. He'll need to finish when he says he will so his son isn't stuck at someone elses house until he gets home.

Like I said, now they're settled into it they should start putting more concrete plans in place. I don't think that what they are doing (once better organised) is unreasonable. As I mentioned, it seems others are happy enough to help out, you don't know differently and don't waste time getting annoyed on behalf of other people. I don't think this set up makes her entitled, or cheeky or anything other than a bit all over the place just now!

Although the Facebook thing is ridiciously stupid.

[Goldmandra]

SIL sounds pretty good at emotional blackmail!

YANBU to feel that this is inappropriate and taking advantage. This is also not an arrangement with any sort of long term future. People cannot be expected to routinely drop their own plans so your SIL can keep agreeing to take shifts, then trying to find last minute childcare. Those she is pressurising will get more and more resentful and say no more often. Using family members for a long term childcare arrangement is only OK if those family members have agreed to take on this responsibility.

Maybe your SIL should be thinking more along the lines of how much she is letting her son down.

I still believe you need to find a time to speak to them both about making a more appropriate long term arrangement. Childminders do cover shifts. I have done it for a police officer so the shift pattern is no excuse not to look for a more permanent arrangement.

I really feel for this little boy. He will feel very hurt by this as he gets older and more aware of what is going on.

[MrsKeithRichards]

In fact both of them need to speak to their employers about when the can start and when they need to finish. Lay down the expectations. Speak to those family and friends that are willing to help and detail what might be needed and when. No reason why it can't work.

[MrsKeithRichards]

But it seems to just be the hour or so at dinner time between SIL having to go to work and DB getting home. That would be tricky to cover.

[notnagging]

What type of childcare do you expect her to get for the evenings op. a childminder doesn't work late usually & nurseries close around 6.

[letseatgrandma]

Why is it ending up being the whole evening then and not just that one hour?

[2rebecca]

I'd probably drop SIL as a friendon FB if she started behaving like that, drop a few people and say you had a technical hitch or something.
She shouldn't be getting extra spending money at your expense. If you want to spend the time with your niece then babysit, if you don't then say no it's not convenient.
I would say that you prefer not to have last minute requests unless they are for an emergency (and extra work shifts are rarely an emergency.)
I don't see why she can't pay you if you're babysitting anyway.
I never lived near enough to family for the free babysitting thing though so don't have much sympathy for parents who expect it.

[MrsKeithRichards]

It does sounds like she thought it would fit in perfectly but your DB is the one letting the side down really. She's also been trying to make a good impression by taking on more, rightly or wrongly, but it seems to have been worth it now they'll have more stability with more income and it spread over two earners instead of all on one.

She just needs to get the details ironed out!

[wanderingcloud]

YADNBU

SIL/DB should sort childcare out before they agree to work.

notnagging why in the hell is that the OPs problem?!?!

It's not her place or anyone elses to sort out their childcare. If you take on a job that makes childcare awkward or difficult you should think about how you are going to organise it before you agree to do it. Or you get a different job.

You shouldn't expect it to be everyone else's problem.

[Goldmandra]

What type of childcare do you expect her to get for the evenings op. a childminder doesn't work late usually & nurseries close around 6.

It isn't the OP's job to work that out.

It is the responsibility of these parents to work out when they need childcare and make the appropriate arrangements with people who are willing to offer the care their child needs. Putting pressure on people to take him at the last minute all the time is inappropriate.

If the family are happy to offer long term help to cover these childcare needs they will agree to a more structured arrangement. If they say no to this the parents need to look for alternatives or make different work arrangements.

If there is not an arrangement in place to cover shifts at short notice the SIL should not accept them.

The child should come first, not the income or the luxuries.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

notnagging - some kind of after school nanny? Maybe it wouldn't be financially viable, but that is the reality of being a working parent, something which the OPs relations don't appear to be absorbing.

I agree it is difficult, but why should there be an expectation on others to be available for childcare? People have their own lives to lead.

As I think I said further up the thread, if it was a question of keeping a roof over their heads then that would be a different question - but this is extra money for luxuries which does, IMO, put a different slant on things.

OP - now that SIL is back in the workplace and has some experience, she could always look for another job with more regular hours that might enable them to go for some structured childcare with a CM and then your Mum and hers covering some of the time to help with the costs? If their current setup doesn't work for them, then they need to look to ways to change things, not be trying to bully other people into picking up their slack.

[PootlePosyPerkin]

YANBU. DH works 8.00am to 5.30pm & I work from 6.30pm to 10/10.30pm Monday to Friday and all day Saturday & Sunday every other weekend, meaning I have 2 days off in 14.

We could certainly use the money I would earn if I did more hours here & there whilst DH is also at work and could perhaps then give up an evening or two a week to spend more time as a family. However, the hours would be so irregular that I could not arrange a nursery place or childminder for DD (it may be the same nationally, not sure, but here you either sign up for full-days, full-mornings or full-afternoons on set days & pay whether you need the place or not). I am very grateful when, on the odd occasion, a friend looks after DD for me BUT I certainly would not commit to extra hours/a change of hours in the assumption that people would provide me with free childcare!

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

OP - what you can bet on, is that if your DN was in nursery and your DB was needing to do pickup because SIL was at work, or otherwise incur late fees, then he would make sure he was on his way home on time.
It sounds as if it is all too easy for him to think 'oh DD is with Mum/MIL/Standard, she will be fine I don't need to rush'.

Is there an element of that do you think? If your SIL has done the childcare up until October, is he finding it easier to lurk at work under the guise of making a good impression at the new job, rather than coming home and having to plunge into the exhausting process of getting a young toddler from 5.30 - bedtime?