To think my ds dies not need a 'bloody good hiding'

[mamasmissionimpossible]

So I'm staying at parents as we are having our home redecorated before a move.

My ds is 7. He came home from a party today and was being aggressive (hiting the walls)and calling me names. my parents overhear all this.

I want to discipline without smacking as I just don't see it as a useful method if discipline. My father doesn't agree and says if ds did this behaviour with him in charge he would give him ' a bloody good hiding'. I feel so upset he could do that and know it wouldn't work long term. Df thinks he will be a delinquent teen with the behaviour he us showing.

After ds calmed down. He apologised to me (without prompting) and I explained why his behaviour was unacceptable.

Just looking for reassurance from mn that I don't need to use physical discipline to get him to behave.

I found out after the event that he hadn't had any tea at the party, which often has a negative effect on his behaviour.

[SirBoobAlot]

Having been 'disciplined' by my parents, and hit by an ex partner, I felt exactly the same. It caused me to feel exactly the same, in the moment, and every moment after. And also caused me to feel like I deserved it when my ex partner hit me... Because I had been smacked as a child.

The only difference is we have told ourselves that hitting another adult is wrong, but we have the biological right over our children to hit them when we think they 'need' it.

Think about it.

No one deserves to be hit. No one deserves to live anxiously thinking if they upset that certain person in their life, they will be physically punished for it. No one deserves to have their self respect crushed, to feel that dread every time they slip up.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The op says that at the moment her parents place is home

[waltermittymistletoe]

I think people need to stop being hysterical here.

Whether you agree with it or not, smacking is NOT beating, abusing or bullying a child if used correctly as a method.

This deliberately emotive posts are ridiculous. It doesn't mean you've lost control if you haven't lost control while you're smacking does it?!

My sister smacks as a form of discipline. I've seen it. She has NEVER lost her temper and NEVER hit hard enough to cause pain let alone leave bruising. It's not for me personally but just because she parents differently doesn't mean she's wrong and I'm right.

The comparisons to or implied accusations of child abuse are ridiculous and make a mockery of the real abuse that children suffer daily.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

So if she hasn't lost her temper why would she smack? What's the point?

[strumpetpumpkin]

if my children had acted like that. I would be bloody ashamed. I wouldnt be averse to giving a short slap on the bum for it either.
If you dont agree with smacking, then find another method of discipline or your little prince is going to give you hell in a few years and he will be bigger than you then

[waltermittymistletoe]

What's the point? Well, the same point as every other discipline method I would imagine.

Punishment of bad behaviour is not a new idea. It doesn't mean you don't love your children or that you want to abuse them.

You were abused by your mother sock and I'm so sorry that you went through that but there is no comparison between that and smacking as a method.

[RandallPinkFloyd]

But why would you hit a child?

I genuinely can see no logical reason.

Why would anyone purposely cause a child pain?

There are a million ways to teach a child good behaviour. I don't believe hurting them is a legitimate one.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

But punishment of bad behaviour does not just mean smacking, it means punishment

Smacking is these days considered a out dated wrong practice by most people ( or perhaps that should read most people won't admit to thinking its ok even if they do)

If you phoned the nspcc for information and advice regarding disapline and asked about smacking they would surgest you chose a different method as would 99% of other child related professionals you would be hard pushed to justify it successfully to anybody in that field these days

[Shallishanti]

I get SO fed up hearing about how so many kids are badly behaved these days due to no smacking. My Dcs are now all in their late teens/20s and we did not smack or otherwise use physical punishment. They never ran in the road or did those other dangerous things- if I thought they weren't safe I made sure they were till they were old enough to be sensible, hence, near traffic+small child=handholding/reins, they were supervised closely near open fires/deep water etc etc I never had any trouble saying to them, I know you want to do X (undesirable thing) but I'm your mother and know more than you because I'm older, so, sorry if you don't like it but you can't do/have it. Lets do something else instead.
While I do wish they were tidier, they are all responsible, mature, respectful and empathic young adults.
It's really not the case that not smacking=breakdown of society

[waltermittymistletoe]

I think staunch anti-smackers think smacking = abuse. That's not always the case. I don't do it but I don't necessarily think the people who do are abusers.

It depends. If someone has lost their temper and lashed out it's one thing but as a method of discipline the intention is not to cause pain. And I don't think it does cause pain when used as a method.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The intention of a smack when used as a punishment method is NOT to cause pain????


Now I don't 'get' that I can just about see that some people claim it is to shock but how would it shock if it didnt also case pain surely its the pain that's shocking?

If its not painful then its just touching another person so not a smack at all.

[waltermittymistletoe]

Well that's my understanding of it so I could be wrong!

You could argue that the naughty step teaches children that they're not "good enough" to sit with the family!

No punishment is ideal. The nature of them is not ideal! So you find the one you're comfortable with I guess.

Smacking without pain is, I would imagine, a way of associating the naughty action with the punishment so: if you say "John you do NOT call mummy names" along with a tap on the bottom, John thinks smack=punishment for calling names. I'm probably not making sense! But that's my take fwiw!

[SirBoobAlot]

No, the association it builds is "I am bigger than you, therefore I have the right to physically hurt you if I disagree with you. Because I am the adult, you have to respect me, I don't have to respect you".

Would you slap a friend if something they did make you angry? No, because you would have no friends.

If you hit another adult because something they did disrespected you, then you would be accused of assault.

Hurting another human being is not okay. Hurting a child, because you think they deserve it, makes you a bully, and if you are only capable of parenting via fear, then you should really reconsider your relationship with your children.

[RandallPinkFloyd]

Applauds ^^

[waltermittymistletoe]

We're discussing two different things here though. As I said upthread, there is smacking because of temper/loss of control/bullying and then there is smacking when you are perfectly in control and are using it as a form of discipline.

Again, as I said, it's not for me. But I don't think every parent who utilises it is an aggressive, bullying abuser!

[SirBoobAlot]

Oh, so as long as you only hit your child when it is calculated, that's okay?

Nope, not seeing that.

Actually, I almost think that is more concerning. Because if you are calm whilst you are doing it, then you are so utterly convinced that it is okay to hurt your child.

[waltermittymistletoe]

As I also said upthread, from what I've read/been told/seen smacking as a method doesn't hurt!

[steppemum]

sorry haven't read whole thread, but you could be describing my ds.

This would be typical, home from exciting activity, very hungry, unreasonable behaviour including agression towards walls/cushions etc and saying unacceptable things to me.

He never gets away with it, we always deal with it. usually timeout to calm down (in his room) food, and then talk and consequence.

You did the right thing. I am not anti smacking per say, but with ds we realised early on that if we smacked it increased his aggression, and if we want him to be less agresive, we have to demostrate behaviour which involves discipline and anger management etc without resort to smacking

The hardest thing is that other people pass comment like your df. You have made a conscious choice not to smack, remind yourself of the reasons and then stick to it, even if df has a fit. You may need to explain to df what you have done in terms of consequences, so he understands ds isn't getting away with it.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Problem being is that those who do smack very rarely understand or accept that anything else is actual punishment.

Its often smacking or nothing so even if you do use other methods and explain them, in there eyes it not a smack so its the child getting away with it.

[louisianablue2000]

Dominodonkey I didn't go to a rough school, I went to a very good rural school where the majority of children were from stable homes so the odd one who wasn't stood out like a sore thumb. And it was literally one out of a school of two hundred and everyone knew what the family was like. I'm sure there are lots of reasons why there either is or appears to be more badly behaved children. To pick an example that is blame free, I know a teacher who specialises in SNs and she says the increase in very early premature babies surviving means there are more children with behavioural problems coming into schools. Plus of course more children with SNs are taught in mainstream schools where once they were put into specialist schools. Obviously not every premature baby or SNs child has behavioural problems but some will do however well they are parented.

Like a PP said smacking is not condoned by any childcare experts anymore. Personally I find the concept of 'perfectly in control' smacking quite disturbing. I think generally suboptimal parenting is associated with a child pushing our buttons so much we lose perspective (one of the reasons the naughty step is recommended is to give the parent as well as the child a chance to calm down and think about the best way to proceed). Claiming you calmly chose to smack is a sign that, at best, you don't have many tools in your parenting backpack, at worst could suggest you are so emotionally damaged you can't see the harm you are doing. The trouble with the word 'smacking' is that it can mean everything from good-enough parents using an outmoded discipline technique rarely to straightforward abuse.

And for those who claim only smacking can prevent a child misbehaving in public. My sister said the most effective punishment my Mum ever dished out was when they were at a restaurant with some members of our extended family and my sister was so badly behaved my Mum said if she didn't stop they would have to leave the restaurant. DSis carried on misbehaving so Mum apologised to her cousin and took my sister home. No other punishment was used, she didn't even shout, the shame (and I suspect missing out on pudding!) was enough.

[steppemum]

sorry sock, but that is somewhat sweeping statement. People who use smacking as a form of discipline are perfectly capable of seeing other forms of discipline and using other forms of discipline. Most of the families I know who choose to smack do it occasionally or rarely and use many other things as well. They are not some strange other breed.

Whether the ops df will understand it is another issue. It may depend on how she explains it, or if the alternative discipline is seen to be effective, or if her ds has apologised in an appropriate way.

[SirBoobAlot]

"As I also said upthread, from what I've read/been told/seen smacking as a method doesn't hurt!"

Riiiight. Well nice to know that you are sure about what you are defending in that case.

As someone who was smacked, it did hurt, and the affect it had on my self esteem and mental state long term has been even more detrimental.

My parents smacking me taught me that it was okay for people to hit me when they thought I was wrong, which kept me in an abusive relationship. It taught me that I didn't deserve to feel safe. It taught me not to trust my parents, and not to respect them, because they didn't respect me. It definitely contributed towards the serious, permanent mental health condition I have to deal with every single day - because my parents thought that I should be punished for being an average child.

So yes. I'd say it's bloody hurtful, actually.

[SparkleSoiree]

Not smacking a child, to me, is about respecting them as a human being. I don't feel I have the right to hit any part of my children's bodies for any reason. It's their body and their basic right not to expect anyone to inflict pain upon them for whatever perceived justification.

Nobody's child is perfect and very few children in the grand scheme of things grow into delinquent adults. But surely if there is a pain free way of teaching your child the right way and wrong way of how to behave within society then you would take the more peaceful/less aggressive way? Because a child loses control for a few minutes does not equate the need for a loud, aggressive or OTT response from the parent. Likewise, it doesn't mean the child is 'bad'.

On this thread the OP's child has been referred to as 'a right little shit' and 'a brat'. I find the attitude of name calling children by adults quite disturbing. We are meant to be their teachers, their mentors as they grow. How can the argument of smacking have any distinction from physical abuse when some adults are calling children derogatory names too?

[Kayano]

I was smacked twice in my life.

both times were in Church ironically

• just mad me hate church
  

but on the whole I was a very well behaved child, loved my mother and father and they loved me. I'm so close to them it is unreal

to be honest I would hope I never had a child behave like that. I mean, he is 7 not 4! If I did I think I would.smack in extreme circumstances And if other methods clearly hadn't worked. Missing a bed time story hours later is going to do nothing in the long run.

[Dominodonkey]

louisiana You have proved my point really. You first argued that there was lots of bad behaviour in the past and then said it was so rare for a child to be that rude that everyone knew the family had problems. Now it is an everyday occurrence from children from all sorts of backgrounds (many middle class and comfortable)

The thing about early births is very interesting.

I am not saying more bad behaviour is a direct result of not smacking exactly more of a general lack of discipline.

Those who think smacking is so cruel and bullying - I still can't reconcile the idea that most of you (I know, not all) think its fine to ostracise a child, take their possessions, confine them to their room, make them forfeit much longed for activities but the idea of a smack sends you into meltdown.