To think my ds dies not need a 'bloody good hiding'

[mamasmissionimpossible]

So I'm staying at parents as we are having our home redecorated before a move.

My ds is 7. He came home from a party today and was being aggressive (hiting the walls)and calling me names. my parents overhear all this.

I want to discipline without smacking as I just don't see it as a useful method if discipline. My father doesn't agree and says if ds did this behaviour with him in charge he would give him ' a bloody good hiding'. I feel so upset he could do that and know it wouldn't work long term. Df thinks he will be a delinquent teen with the behaviour he us showing.

After ds calmed down. He apologised to me (without prompting) and I explained why his behaviour was unacceptable.

Just looking for reassurance from mn that I don't need to use physical discipline to get him to behave.

I found out after the event that he hadn't had any tea at the party, which often has a negative effect on his behaviour.

[LittleBoSqueak]

sock- i still don't understand why as a child you laughed at her distress/loss of control.......... To me it says something about your character.

[Shallishanti]

to me it says that a powerless child uses any means they have to cope with abusive behaviour

[LittleBoSqueak]

thankyou shall that helps me understand it.

[Moominsarescary]

It's a bit like laughing at the bully in the school playground, you don't want to show them how much they've hurt you.

I think someone taking the blame for their siblings to stop them getting hurt shows alot more about your character than a young child laughing at their parent smacking them.

She sounds like my friends mum, she also suffered with her mh but from the outside they seemed like the perfect family. My friend spent most of her teens in an inpatient mh unit due to her upbringing. Her mum also never has her dc on her own, although their relationship is better now

[LittleBoSqueak]

Thankyou moomin.

What do you do if you don't smack your child and you are consistent but the bad behaviour carries on?

[JaquelineHyde]

I would really like the OP to come back and talk us through what she actually did do at the time her son was throwing this violent, abusive tantrum because so far all I have heard is that it happened and then he came and apologised to her when he felt like it and then he lost his bedtime story.

Was there any intervention or was he just left to damage your Dad's property until he felt calm? What kind of abuse was he throwing at you, was any of that challenged?

I think if I had a guest in my house who allowed their child to damage my property, throw abuse around and have no consequences, not even an immediate apology then I would consider asking them to leave.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Little Bo.

As a baby and young child I did not know my mother was ill,i did not know that she viewed me as the cause of her illness, all I knew was that for the first 16 years of my life she acted as tho she hated me all at the same time as being a perfect mother to my brothers and sisters.

I very quickly learnt that I could not possibly gain her approval or love my eldest brother tells me I stopped even trying to please her at about 4,

When I was very little she would stop if I cried or just crumpled so I became an expert at doing both, but by the time I was about 5/6 she resented me because I cried or went limp and that would enrage her further.

I can't say exactly when or exactly why but I decided to just choose not to let her know she hurt me to just act like it didnt, so I laughed at her and said stupid things like " is that the best you can do" or " that didnt hurt" even if it did.

Its hard to get your head round it but at the time she was not showing distress she was being violently abusive and to me as a child she appeared to get some satisfaction from the suituation so I decided to remove that.

It actually helped me a great deal to deal with what was going on mainly because I never again had to see the look on her face when she knew she had really hurt me and because it made me feel like I was in control of what was happening.

I now work with a woman who used to work as a guidance /pastoral care person at one of the schools( day school after I stopped boarding) I went to, we once got very very drunk and talked about me as a teenager she remembered me turning up with my face black and blue and telling her " don't fret its ok it happened because I was being a complete shit" she told me that she would never forget that 15 yo who thought she was so strong and tough that having her face smashed in didnt warrent any fuss or fretting. So I guess that back then it did help me cope.

[waltermittymistletoe]

I don't think OP will be back.

In my experience, people who think skipping a meal is a reason for his sort of behaviour are the type of people who don't like criticism of their little angels!

[Parker231]

What right has any adult to smack a child - if an adult can't control themselves, how can we expect children to learn good behaviour.

[LittleBoSqueak]

sock

my dd does the laughing at me, saying stuff when i am trying to talk/discipline her, not trying to please me or gain my approval and I just don't understand why she doesnt care.

It makes me so cross!!! But i have learnt to try to ignore but it is so hard not to retaliate verbally!!! I try to keep in mind what someone said here that what you say to a child becomes there internal voice.

Your post frightened me i guess. I love my dd but she makes parenting so difficult.

Thankyou for trying to explain things to me. I really appreciate it.

[ComposHat]

What right has any adult to smack a child - if an adult can't control themselves, how can we expect children to learn good behaviour

As a previous poster has stated, a parent has a right and responsibility to discipline their children. A tap on the leg or bottom doesn't imply a loss of control on the part of the parent. Hitting out at a child in anger is a different kettle of fish and is wrong.

The comparison between the way you would treat an adult and a child is a bogus one. Does taking a child's toy away from them encourage them to steal? Does sending them to their room teach them to practice false imprisonment?

[IneedAsockamnesty]

How old is she littlebo?

[Moominsarescary]

Ah little she sounds like ds1, he's nearly 18 now but has always been strong willed and always wanted to have the last word.

It's frustrating and drives you mad I just stopped engaging. It was a case of right you've done so and so your punishment will be whatever I'm not talking to you about it. It caused tantrums in the begining but he did learn after I while that I wasn't going to argue with him.

Ds2 is far easier to discipline and parent but he has a totally different personality. He's 10 and I can say to him right your rooms a mess go tidy it please, he may huff and puff about it but will go and do it. If I'd said the same thing to ds1 at that age ge would have refused and tried to start a row.

With him it was a case of right your rooms a mess, I want it tidying by tomorrow night, which worked better. He's always wanted to do things in his time so giving him longer to do them works well. He has a bit of choice when he gets things done, but it's still on my time scale so I'm still the one in control, if that makes sense!

Obviously that only works in situations where things don't have to be done this minute, but it made him feel like he had a bit of control and imput into situations.

[Parker231]

What does a tap on the leg or bottom achieve ? What does the child learn from that ? My DT's are 16 now but have never been smacked and they aren't angels but have turned out as responsible, usually well behaved and certainly know what is right and wrong.

[seeker]

God, the word "tap" makes me shiver. If it's really a "tap" it won't hurt at all and therefore won't have any impact at alll - which means it's a particularly sinister euphemism.

Have we had the "running out into the road" and "putting their fingers into electric sockets "thing yet? Funny how only smackers children do thwt.

[LittleBoSqueak]

Sock - she's yr 8. She's had an awful time with her other parent, she's damaged i know that. But my god she brings me to my knees!! Its kind of like I understand this on an intellectual level but the reality of parenting her is so hard! I know I have made lots of mistakes because I just don't know how to parent HER. When I have sought for help in the past i get the advice for a standard child e.g reward charts etc. In the face of my dd this advice is laughable!

Moomin- Yes i have another child whose soooooo much easier to parent but they watch their sister and copy. I hate how this changes the sibling.

I have hijacked this thread (but its good to 'talk' to people who understand). Its beyond most peoples experience and therefore understanding.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Have you tried just stating what's not acceptable saying what needs to be done to put it right then completely disengaging with any tantrums act like you can't hear them and go about your day.

Only re engage when she has stopped or starts being civil.

If you do this its important that every episode of bad behaviour is separate from a previous episode even if they are half an hour apart and that you do engage as soon as she's as near to civil as you can reasonably expect. And take an opportunity to discus that you will not feed negative attention seeking behaviour but you will feed positive behaviour.

[theplodder]

I would smack to be honest. Part of the reason why children are so badly behaved nowadays is insufficient discipline and boundary testing. When i was young i was dealt with by a smack. The threat of it made me behave, particularly when out in public. Today you see so many brats carrying on and the parents refuse to discipline. I find it very odd.

[SirBoobAlot]

Yes because being threatened is a fantastic way to encourage you to behave

If it was a DH saying to a DW "Behave in the way I want or I'll smack you", it would be classified as abuse.

Why the hell is it seen as acceptable to say to someone smaller than you, who you are supposed to love unconditionally, and who believes you will take care for them, "If you don't do what I want you to do, I will hurt you, and often humiliate you by doing it in public as well"?

[RandallPinkFloyd]

I simply don't understand why anyone would intentionally cause a child physical pain.

I genuinely don't get it. How could you hurt a small child and actually think you we're doing a good thing?

My xh was given the belt once. His father caught him taking money from his mother's purse so he immediately marched him upstairs ordered him to drop his trousers and gave him a good few lashes.

Xh thinks he deserved it. He sees nothing wrong with it at all.

What his father didn't ever find out, because he didn't actually talk to his son, was that he was stealing to try to pay off the bullies who were making his life a misery and beating him to a pulp every day for his dinner money.

A good parent is respected by their children not feared by them.

[Parker231]

Why does discipline needs to be in the form of physically hurting a child ?

[ComposHat]

If it was a DH saying to a DW "Behave in the way I want or I'll smack you", it would be classified as abuse.


The comparison with a spouse is bogus and deliberately emotive. An adult is legally and morally responsible for raising their child and providing a framework of discipline. Many forms of sanction imposed on a child would be equally abusive of a spouse. 'Behave in the way I want or I will confine you to a single room of the house' or 'Behave in the way I want or I will take the computer/phone/car keys off you' would both be classified as abuse of a spouse.

Parent who smacks child and wife-beater is an absurd comparison and an insult to victims of domestic violence.

[babyboomersrock]

I grew up in the 50s, when children were belted at school, so that the fear of the belt hung over us all the time. For those of you who believe that the lack of physical punishment is why we have such indiscipline among children now I'd ask why it was the same children who were beaten on a daily basis? If it had worked, either as a punishment or a deterrant, why did they persist in their "bad behaviour"?

I did not smack my four. It just means you've lost control and while it may stop one bit of bad behaviour temporarily, it doesn't deal with the main purpose of parenting, which (imo) is to help your children develop into mature people capable of understanding that other people, and their property, deserve consideration.

Your little boy sounds angry or upset to a worrying degree, OP - if this is unusual for him, I'd be getting to the bottom of it, and if it's "normal", it needs correcting. I am pretty laid back about most things but with my young children, I was most definitely in charge and they knew it.

In your situation, OP, I'd have stopped him the moment he was rude to me. The moment he as much as looked at me, in fact, because I'm sure you knew what he was about to do. I would have restrained him physically from hitting the walls and removed him from the room. Once out of that room, I'd have warned him quietly and calmly a) that there was to be a fitting punishment and b) that he was to go straight back and apologise to his GPs. I do not like what your father said, but I can only think that he was utterly frustrated to see you allow a 7-year-old to speak to you in that way.

To be honest, mine would have been embarrassed at 7 to be caught behaving like that - it sounds like toddler behaviour. I really think you need to set firm boundaries now.

[cory]

Am I reading a different OP from the rest? I understood that the boy was aggressive after he came home from a party (so not in somebody else's home), that the aggression took the form of hitting the walls (no indication of any damage being done) and that the parents only overheard this because they were in the OP's home at the time when he was having a meltdown.

Everybody else seems to think that he damaged property and was out of control when staying with his grandfather or at the party. Did I miss a post?

When ds was angry and upset I used to actively encourage him to hit a pillow. If there had been a good reason for him not to hit the wall, I would have physically restrained him at the time.

My db was very well behaved but did occasionally have meltdowns in the privacy of his own home. Which is why my mum hated having her MIL to stay: she'd walk from the other end of the house specifically to poke her oar in.

[Rosa]

If I was a guest in somebody elses house and my child started hitting the walls I would have restrained him in some way . imagine if a picture fell down and smashed on him or anything...some walls are thin he could have put his fist through it. He should have apologised to his GP's and also had more of a punishment ..I don't believe in ruling providing disipline to a child via feviolence - I was raised with the odd smacked bottom when I was very naughty and It taught me not to do it again.