to ask for 2 bits of baby advice as there is more traffic?

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

Thank you

DS is 13 months old

Issue 1: About 6 weeks ago we did CC with great sucess, he got it after 2 nights and was going down without a whimper and sleeping through.

For the last week he has been hysterical when we put him down again and it's been like night one all over again. We go in to re-assure at 5 min, 10 min and 15 min intervals. It's heartbreaking

I don't think it's separation anxiety starting to show (but could be wrong) He goes to nursery 2 days a week and is happy there. He spends 1 day a week with my DM and again is fine and happy. He sleeps over at DMs occasionally (and did so in the midst of this upset) and goes down with no issue there

Is there anything I can do? This is horrible.

Issue 2:

He thinks "no" is a game. Is that just normal for his age? My main concern is him playing with the TV which he could pull down and it scares me (wall bracket ordered)

If I say "no" he grins, shakes his head, giggles and does whatever got him the "no" again and again and thinks it's great fun

Any tips for re-inforcing "no" or do I just have to wait for him to get a bit older?

Thanks for any advice.....

[midori1999]

OP, you might find this link regarding what is normal infant sleep development and also has some info on sleep training both reassuring that your baby is displaying normal sleep behaviour and informative re sleep training.

www.isisonline.org.uk/hcp/how_babies_sleep/sleep_training/cost_of_success/

All babies will learn to sleep 'all night' (no one actually sleeps all night without waking up at all) and by themselves in their own time. No one needs to train them to or teach them anything.

[CoteDAzur]

If you don't understand, ask.

Then you can learn that some of us have actually tried those methods and they have not worked.

Do you think loving parents come to making their babies cry on purpose because they feel like it?

[chandellina]

Most people try different methods, probably cc is not the first port of call for many.

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

I tried gradual retreat Zimabah

And pick up / put down

And a few other things besides.

I also read dozens of books and articles on different sleep training methods and searched for evidence of CC being harmful

Thing is with "all the crying" is that DS cried just as much through gradual retreat, pick up / put down and all the others

Only difference with the CC is that

a) I felt shitty because I wasn't doing anything (even though what I was doing on the other techniques only soothed me, not DS,

and b) he actually went to sleep and slept through.

[chickenyummychicken]

absolutely not first port of call
at the end of my tether
but after weeks and weeks of other options - it worked FOR ME
each to their own

[CoteDAzur]

"All babies will learn to sleep 'all night' and by themselves in their own time."

That would be why sleep threads are full of delirious parents tearing their hair out about how their 2-3 year olds are still not sleeping through the night.

I cannot explain with words just how happy I am that is not our DC.

Some of us have preferred to actively encourage our DC to sleep through the night. Speaking for DH & me, I have to say that it is the best decision we have ever made re DC. They both sleep through, every night. Nobody is sleep deprived, everyone starts the day happy and refreshed.

[chickenyummychicken]

amen cote

[3smellysocks]

Try 'stop' instead of 'no'. It will be awful if he starts to use the word tons too.

Try distraction also and lots of fun. Make him keen to please you and stay on your right side.

Rather then leaving him, can you sit next to him and hold his hand?

[LadyKinbote]

I think it depends on the quality of the cry. A tired, whimpering cry could mean he just wants to be left alone to settle himself to sleep, but a sharp frightened cry is more likely to mean he's teething or something. I know that CC would have been torture to DS while teething but doing it when he was well came as a blessed relief to him, let alone us!

[Moominsarescary]

Yes im sure at some point they all learn to sleep on their own, you may have to wait untill they are bloody 5 or 6 before they learn to self sooth and sleep though.

[slatternlymother]

What time are you putting him down? He could be overtired. DS (2.3) is in bed for 6pm every night; he cannot stay up later without having a meltdown like you described.

Also, some children need a period of fussing before they sleep. DS used to do it sometimes; he now sings songs or chats to his toys

Oh, and the 'no' thing is normal. Infuriating, I know. I find a sharp 'ah!' In a low tone (ever noticed they take Daddy's telling's off more seriously?) followed by 'Don't do that DS, because you could get hurt' and remove him from the area without eye contact. I always try to give a brief explanation of why they can't do something. I think they understand more than we know, and it seems fairer.

[Rhubarbgarden]

Well said, Cote.

[slatternlymother]

And I don't think the OP is asking for alternatives to CC.



Nope. She's not.

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

He goes down between 7:30 and 8

I think I do need to move him to 1 nap and an earlier bedtime as well as doing his wind down upstairs and getting his room a bit cooler

slattern he does take more notice of DH...........hadn't thought about the pitch either. I will explain more too in terms of why he can't touch the TV etc

[slatternlymother]

When does he usually get up in the morning and nap during the day?

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

He wakes about 6 am

Has a 1 - 2 hour nap from about 9:30 (varies but ususally about 1.5 hours)

and then has a 45 min to 1 hour nap at about 15:30

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

We didn't use CC but I did use pick-up/put-down, shush-pat and also gradual withdrawl. Therefore can't offer you any advice on CC but you might find something that works for all of you that is still moving in the right direction. We found shush-pat good as it did mean that DD fell back to sleep lying down in her cot and I made the shush-pat shorter and shorter. Finally just shushing through the door. I felt better comforting DD but not doing a picking her up and rocking her back to sleep in my arms approach which wasn't really helping her learn.

The no thing is par for the course. At that age, I'd remove the object or child. Everything in the world is new and exciting, and of course they want to explore it and they also love attention! Distraction with something else is definitely your friend.

[slatternlymother]

Can he have and hour and a half at lunchtime and start his bedtime routine (bath etc) at 6:30 to be in bed for 7?

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

I could try that slatternly although I don't get home with him till 6 on the 3 days he's at nursery or DMs so could be a little rushed

If he's really tired on these days though I sometimes drop his bath to get him to bed a little earlier although I try to keep the routine as a rule

I have to go to bed myself now as he will be raring to go at 6am :)

Thank you for all the advice

[midori1999]

Vote, funny that. All my older three sleep through all night every night too and have done from a young age. DD, the youngest, who is 18 months sleeps through most nights too, sometimes wakes up during teething etc and admittedly is not always the easiest to get to sleep, but she's different to the others and she's gone from never being put down at all to sleeping in her own cot most nights. (not when teething/ill) no sleep training involved and so far no 2 or 3 year olds awake all night.

I understand what it's like to be tired, I posted the link for information for the OP, who has said she gets distressed with the crying.

[midori1999]

Cote even.... See, sleep deprived..... Although due to jet lag...

[WelshMaenad]

Mine too, midori. Odd!

[HopAndSkip]

I co sleep so no personal advice, but my sister got her ds to start settling by doing his routine, then sitting in the chair in his room with only the night light on until he stopped crying, but not responding to him. Personally i couldn't do any type of cc, i'm way too soft! But maybe thats worth a try if you're still struggling with being too tired to keep going in.

[bellabelly]

Number 1 - I had some great advice from a mate (ex-childminder) when I mentioned that my DTs had recently started crying and crying each night when put down in their cots - we'd recently been on holiday and the crying had started then, they'd previously been v happy at bedtime. The advice really worked for me, straight away, might be worth a try?

All you do is do your normal bedtime routine then put them down in cot, say goodnight/kiss then turn off light as normal. But instead of leaving straight away, stay in room for one minute. Don't "engage" with dc - don't make eye contact or speak but just be there as a reassuring presence. After one minute, leave. Stand outside door for one full minute. If your dc is crying, go back in and repeat as necessary. Still no talking/ssshhhing, no picking up/physical soothing but just being there in the room for a minute. Then leave. Repeat until crying has stopped.

I can't tell you how skeptical I was about this approach but it really worked for us. The first night, I had to go back in twice, the second night, not at all. For some reason, my DTs got into the habit of properly screaming in their cots while we were on hols and carried on when we got home. I was at my wits' end with it, to be honest and I'd have tried just about anything! Hope things improve for you soon. x

[chandellina]

My 13 month old is in bed around 7, up at 8am and one nap between 1230 and 1430. Good luck.