to ask for 2 bits of baby advice as there is more traffic?

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

Thank you

DS is 13 months old

Issue 1: About 6 weeks ago we did CC with great sucess, he got it after 2 nights and was going down without a whimper and sleeping through.

For the last week he has been hysterical when we put him down again and it's been like night one all over again. We go in to re-assure at 5 min, 10 min and 15 min intervals. It's heartbreaking

I don't think it's separation anxiety starting to show (but could be wrong) He goes to nursery 2 days a week and is happy there. He spends 1 day a week with my DM and again is fine and happy. He sleeps over at DMs occasionally (and did so in the midst of this upset) and goes down with no issue there

Is there anything I can do? This is horrible.

Issue 2:

He thinks "no" is a game. Is that just normal for his age? My main concern is him playing with the TV which he could pull down and it scares me (wall bracket ordered)

If I say "no" he grins, shakes his head, giggles and does whatever got him the "no" again and again and thinks it's great fun

Any tips for re-inforcing "no" or do I just have to wait for him to get a bit older?

Thanks for any advice.....

[WelshMaenad]

How lovely, bobby.

What actually happens is that they give up crying for their parents because they realise nobody will come. I fail to see how that can be viewed positively.

[timidviper]

My DS is now 24 but, as a baby, was an absolute monster when it came to sleeping. We did CC under the supervision of a "sleep clinic" the health visitor referred him to and it worked brilliantly. We did have the odd blip but persevered and each time the "relapse" settled quicker. Ignore those posters who think they are entitled to make you feel bad.

As to your second question I am afraid I am no use at all as the advice, back then, was a tap on the back of the hand which is not approved of now at all.

[cocoachannel]

Welsh - therein lies the difference between cc and crying it out. OP is returning.

[TeWisBeenNargledByTheMistletoe]

If that was true Welsh cc babies would never cry ever. Which is not the case, and you know it isn't.

[OpheliasWeepingWillow]

I did cc but at 60 second intervals then 120 second intervals with stroking and patting when I went in. After 8 minutes it would be Hysterics! Don't know how you cope with that TBH. 60 and 120 worked after a week.

No 2 no idea aside from be consistent and don't engage

[Zimbah]

To a baby there's not a huge difference between "5 minutes" and "never". They do not understand time in that way. TBH I see very little difference between CC and cry it out, essentially the baby cries on its own without being comforted, and learns that at night no-one will come when it cries so just gives up. This can indeed result in good sleepers, if that's your main aim in parenting then wonderful. There are other much much kinder ways of sleep training, it really is not necessary at all.

[WelshMaenad]

It's the case for all these babies that cc allegedly 'works' for.

[CoteDAzur]

"so much evidence to show that both CIO and CC are not only harmless, but offer no long term sleep improvement"

That is complete rubbish.

Both of my DC slept through after a few nights of CC, and have always slept through since then, except the occasional teething or illness. Everyone I know who have done CC has had the same result.

And there is no proof that CC is harmful, especially in the long term.

If you have babies who cried only when they had a problem, I'm happy for you. DD cried through every day and every night for four months. Then we did CC, she slept through on the third night, and also became a much happier baby around this time.

Correlation isn't causation, and I'm not claiming she stopped crying 24/7 because she slept through, but I can safely say that it hasn't made her more agitated or unhappy.

And she has slept through ever since. That is 7 years. How is that for "long term sleep improvement"?

[CoteDAzur]

"To a baby there's not a huge difference between "5 minutes" and "never". They do not understand time in that way. TBH I see very little difference between CC and cry it out, essentially the baby cries on its own without being comforted, and learns that at night no-one will come when it cries so just gives up."

How on earth can you possibly know something like that?

How can you possibly be so sure that what the baby learns isn't something like "My parents are really slow to come to me when lights go out, but I know they love me because they are all over me in the daytime, so maybe I'll just go to sleep"?

[50ShadesOfGreggs]

welsh please tell me you are not about to wheel out this study carried out in Romanian orphanages?

[cocoachannel]

We are talking about a 13 month old not a 13 week old.

[bobby1989]

No-one can actually prove why they stop crying....so thank you for your comment!!! All I know from personal experience is running in and out of their room all night leaves you both tired and fed up and after 3 years of doing that with my first a change in tatic with the second was needed. When he gets up in the morning he shouts mummy gives me the biggest smile and cuddle and we start the day both happy and wide awake.

[bobby1989]

I'd also like to clarify that if he was screaming for more than 20 mins I'd go check there wasnt a problem. But he never goes longer than 15-20 mins and that's only happened 2 or 3 times

[WelshMaenad]

Well, god forbid parenting require effort and sacrifice from you. What a farking liberty that would be.

[bobby1989]

Everyone does things differently that's what where all talking about on here it's good to see how other people do things and be able to try different things as some1 who has done it both ways just explaining what works for me and my children.....no need for personal attack we can't all be mother earth as u clearly think you are

[chandellina]

Babies need sleep, and they need to be able to soothe themselves. I consider it my job as a parent to teach my children how to do this. There are a lot of things children aren't going to like and will let you know by crying, parents are in charge and must use their judgement.

[wigglesrock]

If it helps I always used "aaah aaaah" with my dds, all 3 of them think No is an invitation I also use it with my niece who I mind a lot and I think it works.

Dd2 was the incredible non sleeping baby so I can't help with sleep at all .

[50ShadesOfGreggs]

Right, ladies, I am leaving this bunfight healthy debate as I am off to bed.

OP, good luck! Whatever you choose there will be someone out there trying to make you feel bad about it. Stick to what YOU feel is best and you'll be fine.

[BigBabyBoots]

Not sure if it's been suggested already, but you said he's giving all his tired cues already when you put him down, could he be over tired and crying in frustration? DS does this sometimes. He also started needing to go to bed earlier around this age. Had always been 19:30, then suddenly changed to 18:00. Can you bring the routine forward and see if that helps?

[Moominsarescary]

Ds3 is 21 months and allthough he usually settles well at night there are still the odd occasions when he wakes up and I have to sit in his room for a while and gradually retreat.

If cc worked in the begining maybe something else is going on such as teething, starting to come down with something. We find ds can be like this for a few days before he comes down with a bug, or if the room is too hot.

I haven't tried cc with ds3 but did with 1&2. They are 18 and 10 now and it doesn't seem to have damaged them, although they were abit older when I did it.

[pointedlynoresolutions]

I'd second earlier bedtime, actually. By the time a baby is giving 'tired' cues you're already risking 'overtired'. My DDs at that age were going to bed at 18.30, having dropped back from 19.30. That and a cooler bedroom might make all the difference.

I prefer gentler sleep training methods, btw - I did pickup/put down with DD2 when I was weaning her off night feeds, took 3 nights and she slept through. However, that method does not allow for you to leave the room when baby is crying, the whole point is not to let them get to the upset stage. The first night I think I picked her up about 40 times and thought 'this will never work'.

The second night it was 5 or 6 times, the third night she slept through. No tears, no distress from anyone, just a bit of investment of time on my part.

[chickenyummychicken]

another advocate of cc
4 dc
used it with 2
horrible for me i hated myself at the time
It worked though! stick to it and a few days - bingo - they settled themselves. (i was sitting outside the door on pins though!)
happier mummy happier dc
just my opinion

[Moominsarescary]

And what big says, maybe he is over tired

[Zimbah]

What I don't understand is why most people who do CC say how much they hated it, but that it was worth it because then their DC slept. They don't seem to realise/care that there are other methods that can also result in DC sleeping well that wouldn't necessitate all the crying. Why on earth do something that people often describe leaving themselves, the parent, in tears, when there may be another option that still works but is emotionally less wrenching??

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

I hadn't considered the over tired possibilty

That's worth thinking about

I really probably should move him to one nap as well as he is still on two