To be outraged that HMRC have written solely to DH regarding child benefit changes?

[dolcelatte]

My DH has today received notification from HMRC about the changes to Child Benefit. The letter says that if the changes apply to you or your partner 'you should jointly decide' what to do. There is an attached 'helpsheet' which commences 'Am I affected' and then goes on to ask questions about DH and partners' income, what the options are, what needs to be done ie give up child benefit or keep getting it and be taxed on it.

Now, perhaps I have misunderstood the position, but my understanding was that child benefit was generally paid to the mother; yet I have heard nothing form HMRC. Instead, it appears that I am being treated as the 'little woman' - or rather not being acknowledged at all - whilst my DH is being asked to give information about my income and make decisions on behalf of the family without reference to me.

AIBU to think that HMRC should at least have written to both of us about this?

[LittlePickleHead]

I agree with op. what about abusive or controlling situations? If the higher wage earner is not the recipient of cb but chooses to stop payments (without informing the cb receiving partner)? that could have many implications, including that the lower earners ni contributions and state pension is adversely affected.

But then the whole thing is a ridiculously ill thought out shambles

[HebeJeeby]

I received a letter today addressed to me, I assumed that was because the CB is paid to me and not DH. DH earns more than me (although we are both higher rate tax payers) and has not received a letter. I have elected to stop receiving it as it is too much hassle to claim it back via tax return plus, as I have now given up work, I will still keep my carers credits and stack up my state pension credits.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

My husband gets our child benefit paid to him and I am the highest earner in the house...all reversed.

It's not about male/female

[jimmenycricket]

I'm outraged. NEITHER of us has received a letter

[mirpuppet]

Perhaps they are doing this alphabetically or by NI number?

I received the letter and I do not claim child benefit and I am not the high earner (although I have been in the past)

[dolcelatte]

Ok, maybe 'outraged' is a little overdramatic - say 'irritated' or 'annoyed'!

[HebeJeeby]

Should have said that you have misunderstood the position as CB is not automatically paid to the mother it is paid to the individual who elects to receive it - this can be the mother or the father. So is the CB in your name or DH's? If it is in DH's name then I think you ABU as it would be a monumental task for HMRC to write to both partners, plus how do they know who your partner is, you could be separated etc...?

Regarding state pension credits, as long as you already claim CB and elect to give it up, your state pension credits will not be affected, as your entitlement to CB has not stopped just that your family unit's income is over the threshold for you to receive it (if that makes sense). I rang HMRC to check this very point myself. The only people who will not get Carers Credits are those people who do not yet claim CB and in the future will earn too much to receive it.

[PinkyCheesy]

And as far as the 'abusive spouse' thing goes...well if he isn't the child benefit recipient then he can't stop the payment. Only the named recipient can tell the benefits people what they want doing with the child benefit; they won't talk to anyone else about it precisely for this reason. So if your DH is paying higher rate tax and knocks you about and doesn't let you buy anything, just call the helpline and tell them you'll be carrying on claiming the money. DH will get it clawed back through his tax. And there's not much he can do about it (but you should leave the bastard )

[LittlePickleHead]

Is that true pink? God it's so complicated isn't it. So if the lower earner doesn't want to lose the money going to them (for whatever reason) the higher earner has to suck up the extra tax. Could just see that getting very complicated in certain situations. You only have to read the relationships board to see how financially abusive fairly well off men can be. Can't imagine in that situation they would be happy about the extra tax (especially if a number of children are being claimed for). Just worried about what would happen in that situation, when ultimately its going to be the children (and partner) that lose out. Easy to say leave the bastard, not always as easy (or as quick) as that.

[Haberdashery]

And as far as the 'abusive spouse' thing goes...well if he isn't the child benefit recipient then he can't stop the payment. Only the named recipient can tell the benefits people what they want doing with the child benefit

Are you serious? Do you think an abusive partner wouldn't stoop to telling their poor wife or partner what to do in that situation, should it be advantageous to them?

And, dolcelatte, YANBU. You and your partner are both taxed at the higher rate and they've written to him about it? This is nuts. Does he earn more than you? Obv I am being quite nosy there, just interested in this ridiculous debacle.

[fluffygal]

That's odd, when my SS's birthmum dumped them OH had no problems whatsoever getting the CB paid to him. We are poor though so neither of us have received that letter!

[fluffygal]

Also it wasn't questioned, just automatically stopped paying her as he had put in a claim. Tax credits however, kept paying BOTH of them as she continued to claim for 18 months after she left them and never saw them again!

[ceeveebee]

This again? Didn't we do the same thread last week?

I claim CB and I received the letter. DH didn't receive it. We were both earning about the same during the last tax year (which is what it is based on as they won't have current year info yet), I think my income was slightly higher than DHs when bonuses are taken into account. It's nothing to do with whether you are a woman or not, it's about who us higher earner.

[BlueStringPudding]

DH and I both got a letter each, we're both higher rate taxpayers and I currently claim CB. I'm guessing that if you're a higher rate taxpayer, that your letter is still in the post, and will turn up tomorrow..

[NonnoMum]

OP - i think you are right to be outraged.

It belies the progress was made that a husband and wife would be taxed jointly.

You are right to think you are being treated as the 'little woman'. You are.

[TENDTOprocrastinate]

Should I be worried that we both haven't received one yet?

[ceeveebee]

It's nothing to do with gender
As said on this thread and last weeks thread, if DH was the CB claimant and DW the HR taxpayer, letters would be sent to DW only and not to DH

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

The letter is only going to people over £50k on PAYE as I understand it. So you could be higher rate taxpayers but under £50k and be unaffected and therefore not get a letter. Or you could be over £50k from self employment or other non-PAYE income and be affected but not get a letter. If you both earn over £50k but the higher earner is SE not PAYE then it is that person who is liable even though it will be the other one that got the letter. If you are both over £60k it won't matter which one chooses to pay it back. All that is before you even start considering step families, abusive relationships, lodgers etc. It's going to be a right mess.

[Startail]

YANBU
It is totally shitty, but I'am a SAHM of school aged DCs.

l am the lowest of the low, I dare to think Motherhood is important,
. That looking after my own DCs in the holidays, not leaving a 12yo on her own in the middle of nowhere is more important than paying a few pounds tax.

[catsmother]

Totally agree with LittlePickleHead. I've raised the issue of the potential problems this might cause in financially abusive relationships (or any sort of abusive relationship for that matter) on threads before yet comparatively few other posters seem concerned - and the f*g government definitely aren't!

LTB is NOT always simple for a whole host of reasons and quite apart from the courage required, it's not uncommon to read about women who, once they've made a decision to ultimately leave, then feel (for their own personal reasons) they have to spend years saving (quite possibly when they're already struggling on a pittance) for an escape fund, and in the meantime, remain trapped with even less money than they had before CB for single higher earners was withdrawn.

Yes .... if they're in receipt of CB only they can cancel it. But honestly - how many women in those situations would have the guts NOT to cancel it if their OH demanded/threatened them (regardless of potential effect on their pensions if SAHM). And just suppose high earner OH remained somehow oblivious of these changes (maybe letter intercepted) - what do you think would happen along the line when he gets a demand for a tax assessment or whatever and is then presented with a tax bill for a years' worth of clawed back CB ? Are people really incapable of imagining the repercussions, and are they so unsympathetic to women effectively stuck in abusive relationships who might be affected ? Abuse isn't confined to lower earners.

So far as I'm aware, in amongst various media articles about these CB changes not one politician or journalist has raised the issue of how it might affect women in abusive relationships. Being cynical I suspect the powers that be haven't addressed the prospect because if they put something in place to protect such women (and their children) it would then depend on them admitting abuse (which many women are ashamed/frightened to do) and you'd also then be inviting a flood of claims from people in perfectly healthy relationships but insisting otherwise so they kept the benefit. I can see it'd be an impossible adminstrative nightmare but by doing nothing abused women fall through the cracks. Those sorts of abusive men won't be sitting down with their partner to discuss how, as a family, they're going to absorb the loss of £xx from the family budget once they get their letter, they're far more likely to shrug and say the woman will just have to "manage" - with the invariable impact on her and the kids as a result. And if women in such situations already have to beg for every little extra, they are now going to be exposed to even more verbal abuse (or worse) when they have to ask for more - be made to feel even more useless/worthless/undeserving/unequal.

But so few people are thinking of families like those. As Mercibucket said up thread the major en masse response seems to be that higher earners can absorb it, should think themselves lucky etc .... the old cliched thing of turning everyone against each other .... with no thought spared for those whose situations aren't black and white. I fully accept that keeping the benefit as it stands would benefit many families who don't "need" it (need being subjective, individual circumstances etc) but it would also protect women and children in high earning but abusive households (to an extent). It seems to me like, well .... lets throw such families to the wolves so to speak because the relatively few affected are nothing compared to the money we'll save overall.

[fromparistoberlin]

outraged? jesus you need to get out more!

I am BORED FUCKING SHITLESS of discussing this

I am also bored of pople that say "It wont riase any money"

of course it bloody will

they gain back £1608 from me alone per annum
Lets say we have 2 million families like us, thats an easy £3,216,000,000

[mummytime]

The letter went to my DH, I get the CB. I was more outraged that it failed to mention the pension credit that you get if you get CB. They make it seem that it will just be simpler to not claim CB, so not have to declare it, not mentioning that in that case you could loose out on a pension credit.

[fromparistoberlin]

what???? I lose on my pension

god I need to learn this, have just bloody cancelled it!!!

[Blu]

The letter is only going to people over £50k on PAYE as I understand it. So you could be higher rate taxpayers but under £50k and be unaffected and therefore not get a letter.

No, higher rate tax payers who earn under £50k on PAYE are receiving it too. On anecdotal evidence from friends and family.